Photos from Apollo 11 film footage

[profmunkin]

Echnaton
An explanation of vibration caused by the impact of astronauts feet on the moon seems implausible since the moons surface is covered in regolith or fine powder, the vibration would not to be transmitted effectively or easily, plus you can see in the videos that the flag pole does not seem to move.


I sliped back to hoax Theory because I was asked to come back and answer some question concerning Dan Goldin and when I went to the link to recreate information necessary to answer, the flag movement was on the top of the page, just caught my attention.

[raven]

There is a variety of possible explanations, but the least likely is the one claimed by the conspiracy theorists, air.
For one, the flag, a very light, as can be seen by its translucency, nylon one, does not billow but maintains its folds  and swings back and forth in more a pendulum fashion than any flag in air would. Moreover, the video also shows the astronauts kicking up dust as they pass in view, which settles quickly without aerosolizing, which again is vacuum behaviour.
Finally, the flag takes a considerable amount of time to stop moving, again behaviour to be expected of a vacuum environment. Drag on something with such a low mass, high surface area as a nylon flag in air would bring it to a stop quite quickly I believe.
So whether it is electrical charges, vibrations up through the pole, or the astronaut simply brushing it at some point, air in particular can be pretty safely ruled out in my opinion.

[Echnaton]

Echnaton
An explanation of vibration caused by the impact of astronauts feet on the moon seems implausible since the moons surface is covered in regolith or fine powder, the vibration would not to be transmitted effectively or easily, plus you can see in the videos that the flag pole does not seem to move.

Who said anything about the astronauts causing ground vibrations?  They hypotheses offered by Bob were brushing the flag or static electricity.  I offered no hypothesis, just further criticism of the typical hoax proponents FUD mongering explanation. 

I sliped back to hoax Theory because I was asked to come back and answer some question concerning Dan Goldin and when I went to the link to recreate information necessary to answer, the flag movement was on the top of the page, just caught my attention.

Right.  It's the same either way when you live in the valley of the damned.

[gwiz]

Can someone explain why the flags do move as astronauts pass them?

No one knows for sure but the explanations that have been postulated are (1) the astronaut brushed the flag as he walked past, or (2) it was attracted to the astronaut by static electricity.

There's a third possibility.  The astronauts are seen in the TV to kick a lot of dirt about as they move around.  Perhaps a lump hit the flagpole.

[profmunkin]

Can someone explain why the flags do move as astronauts pass them?

No one knows for sure but the explanations that have been postulated are (1) the astronaut brushed the flag as he walked past, or (2) it was attracted to the astronaut by static electricity.

sorry about attributing the vibration comment to you, I must have picked it up from the conspiracy site.

1) The flag moves after the astronaut passes, there is no evidence of an astronaut brushing a flag.
2) If it were static electricity, the flag would have a tendency to be less effected the quicker the astronaut moves past, this is not the case.

It would be ironic if after all the planning that would have gone into getting all the details exactly correct, it comes down to a flag moving when it should not.

[profmunkin]

[There's a third possibility.  The astronauts are seen in the TV to kick a lot of dirt about as they move around.  Perhaps a lump hit the flagpole.

perhaps, but the pole does not appear to move and there is multiple instances of the flag moving on various missions.  There is a slight delay for the movement, a delay that could be anticipated if it were air movement causing the motion of the flag.

[Jason Thompson]

And, as has already been pointed out, the length of time the oscillation of the flag continues for categorically refutes any notion of air being responsible, as air would damp the small vibrations a lot quicker than that.

Also, provide your evidence of 'multiple' cases of flags moving at time other than when being directly manipulated by an astronaut. To the best of my knowledge only one such example has been provided.

[Bob B.]

there is no evidence of an astronaut brushing a flag.

An astronaut moves past the flag with his elbow extended out to his side, and as soon as the astronaut moves past the flag, the flag is seen to move in a fashion consistent with being bumped by the astronaut's elbow.  That looks like evidence to me.

[twik]

profmunkin, I assume that you are positing that the filming was done in a non-vacuum situation, am I correct? If so, how do you account for other things behaving in a way clearly not compatible with an atmosphere, such as dust particles?

They can't have air around the flag, and nowhere else.

[profmunkin]

An astronaut moves past the flag with his elbow extended out to his side, and as soon as the astronaut moves past the flag, the flag is seen to move in a fashion consistent with being bumped by the astronaut's elbow.  That looks like evidence to me.

I would agree with this assertion if you could prove this by pointing out where the flag is deformed by the impact of the elbow.

[profmunkin]

profmunkin, I assume that you are positing that the filming was done in a non-vacuum situation, am I correct? If so, how do you account for other things behaving in a way clearly not compatible with an atmosphere, such as dust particles?

They can't have air around the flag, and nowhere else.

I am not proposing anything, I was asking for an explanation as to why the flag moves, apparently as a result of an astronaut moving past.

[profmunkin]

And, as has already been pointed out, the length of time the oscillation of the flag continues for categorically refutes any notion of air being responsible, as air would damp the small vibrations a lot quicker than that.

Also, provide your evidence of 'multiple' cases of flags moving at time other than when being directly manipulated by an astronaut. To the best of my knowledge only one such example has been provided.

You are most likely correct. I went back to conspiracy page, Apollo 15 mission is depicted on youtube. I had not even bothered look at all the videos linked on the conspiracy page, I assumed the guy would have had more proofs then just one mission.
Apollo 11 time lapsed film of astronauts excursion on the moon, it appears that the flag also moves as a result of astronauts passing, but because of the time lapse and quality of the image this example would be questionable at best to advance as evidence of movement of flag.

[Jason Thompson]

An astronaut moves past the flag with his elbow extended out to his side, and as soon as the astronaut moves past the flag, the flag is seen to move in a fashion consistent with being bumped by the astronaut's elbow.  That looks like evidence to me.

I would agree with this assertion if you could prove this by pointing out where the flag is deformed by the impact of the elbow.

Demonstrate that that is an acceptable standard of proof.

The flag is hanging in a vacuum, therefore does not necessarily behave in the way you would intuitively expect. A small impact may impart just enough momentum to set the whole flag swinging as a unit, rather than deforming it, especially in the absence of any air resistance over the area of the flag.

[Trebor]

profmunkin, I assume that you are positing that the filming was done in a non-vacuum situation, am I correct? If so, how do you account for other things behaving in a way clearly not compatible with an atmosphere, such as dust particles?

They can't have air around the flag, and nowhere else.

I am not proposing anything, I was asking for an explanation as to why the flag moves, apparently as a result of an astronaut moving past.

And you have been given several possibilities.

[Bob B.]

I would agree with this assertion if you could prove this by pointing out where the flag is deformed by the impact of the elbow.

Why should I expect to see a deformation?  The impact, if it occurred, happens out of sight while the astronaut's body is between the flag and the camera.  What we see after the astronaut moves past is the after effect of the contact, i.e. the flag swaying back and forth.  Due to the small amount of movement observed, my belief is that no more than a slight brush along the edge of the flag would get it moving in the manner seen.  Under that condition, I wouldn't expect to see a deformation.

(EDIT)  Let me also point out that my comment wasn't an "assertion".  In Post #208 I stated that no one knows for sure why the flag moves.  Contact between the astronaut and the flag was postulated as a possible explanation.