Photos from Apollo 11 film footage

[JayUtah]

Because it appears that it is closer to 30 degrees based on the measurements of astronauts and their shadows.

This requires considerably more elaboration.  This is where previous amateur attempts at photographic analysis have fallen flat.

[Chew]

Where are your calculations for the 30?

Calculations??? He's eyeballing it and appears to be completely unaware of the phenomena called foreshortening.

"Fore'what'en'ing?" Yeah.

[LunarOrbit]

Problems in delays for posting, the moderator seems to be some sort of control freak, reviewing all of my replies before allowing them to be posted.

Yes, and insulting me is a great way to change that. I've placed you under temporary moderation because your first posts here were off topic in the thread you posted them in. When you understand that "new topic = new thread" I'll remove the restrictions from your account.

[twik]

"Normal" would depend on the camera, and what they were trying to record with it.

[Bob B.]

Using picture #5
 flag is 3.7 units tall
 shadow is 6.5 units in length
 angle of the sun is 30 degrees

It's not that simple.  For instance, if you where to measure the sun elevation in the following photo by the above method, you'd get a different sun angle for each post/shadow.



Have you figured out the flaw in your method yet?

[gillianren]

What is this "method" of which you speak?

[Bob B.]

What is this "method" of which you speak?

Are you addressing me?

The "method" that I'm referring to is where profmunkin determines the sun elevation by measuring the height of the flag and the length of the shadow as they appear in the photo, and then taking the arctangent of the height divided by the length.

[gillianren]

I'm suggesting that Profmunkin doesn't have anything approaching a method other than "it supports Apollo, so it must be wrong."

[Echnaton]

Using picture #5
 flag is 3.7 units tall
 shadow is 6.5 units in length
 angle of the sun is 30 degrees

What led you to believe that this is a correct way to make this determination?

[Jason Thompson]

If the frame rate is set to 1 frame per second
What is normal frame rate, 18 frames per second?

Wouldn't this have been a useful piece of information to have had to hand before you started saying you had drawn conclusions about what the film is showing?

[Glom]

Because it appears that it is closer to 30 degrees based on the measurements of astronauts and their shadows.

This requires considerably more elaboration.  This is where previous amateur attempts at photographic analysis have fallen flat.

Fallen flat. Baddum bum!

[dwight]

Here's a rundown on "normal" framerates:

Silent film circa 1920 - between 12fps and 24fps
8mm home movies - 18fps
16mm and 35mm professional films - 24 fps
16mm and 35mm made-for TV - 25 fps for Europe, 30 pulldown for NTSC
NTSC DVD - 29.97 fps
EBU DVD - 25 fps

If you didnt already know the fundamental basics of film and TV then you have absolutely no business trying to feign knowledge of the Apollo record.

[ka9q]

16mm and 35mm made-for TV - 25 fps for Europe, 30 pulldown for NTSC

Pulldown? Wouldn't it just be 30 (29.97, actually) film frames/sec? The whole idea of shooting at 30 fps is to avoid the pulldown scheme normally needed to show 24fps film at a 30 Hz video frame rate.

Wouldn't it be nice if video interlacing could just go away forever? I suppose it already is with those HD networks using 720p, but 1080i is keeping it alive for no good reason. I mean, interleaving was a clever hack to work around the limitations of CRTs and analog transmission, but both of them have been gone for a while now.

[DataCable]

The whole idea of shooting at 30 fps is to avoid the pulldown scheme normally needed to show 24fps film at a 30 Hz video frame rate.

Are there any actual examples of filmed-for-TV footage shot at 30fps rather than 24?

[gwiz]

Using picture #5
 flag is 3.7 units tall
 shadow is 6.5 units in length
 angle of the sun is 30 degrees

It doesn't work like that, the flag's height and the shadow's length lie in different directions across the frame and will be foreshortened by different unknown amounts.  My suggestion was that you compare the known flag width with the length of the astronaut's shadow, as these are approximately in the same direction, then get an angle from his shadow length and his known height.