Author Topic: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?  (Read 556325 times)

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #870 on: February 06, 2013, 03:18:12 PM »
Later those came to include the practical problems of manned space flight, such as repatriation of national flight crews and equipment, and "rules of the road" for space operations -- something you don't do and don't need if you cooperate, as those apply only to competitors pursuing independent programs.

Indeed. Suggesting that the Outer Space Treaty of 1967 is evidence of collaboration is akin to suggesting that when a competetive sporting event is played both teams are collaborating on the game rather than each trying to knock the other's collective socks off and claim the glory of victory, just because each side has agreed to play by the same set of rules.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline RAF

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #871 on: February 06, 2013, 03:20:57 PM »
I already have been editing, but it takes time with such lengthy posts.

Then stop cluttering every single one of your posts with unrelated quotes.


Offline RAF

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #872 on: February 06, 2013, 03:30:13 PM »
lets just say I haven't always been so middle of the road in my opinions regarding the validity of the Apollo story as told to us by NASA.  I try to keep an open mind so I can see it from both sides.

There are no "both sides" about it...there is established historical FACT, and there are a few ignorant people who simple refuse to rationally accept that the landings happened.

...and "as told by NASA" is irrelevant...scientists all over the world know that Apollo happened, and that you would "give" Percy equal standing with actual scientists is about as "closed minded" as you can get.

So go ahead, and tell us all how "open minded" you are, but don't expect anyone here to believe such garbage.


Offline Andromeda

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #873 on: February 06, 2013, 03:32:44 PM »
Don't be so open-minded your brains fall out...

Look, ProfessorAlfB, we KNOW you are a hoaxist.  Some cursory Googling shows that easily.  Please stop with the "I'm just asking questions" and present your "evidence".
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 03:35:23 PM by Andromeda »
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline RAF

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #874 on: February 06, 2013, 03:35:11 PM »
Jarrah White seems to think...

I've heard that claim, before. But evidence indicates that JW doesn't think at all.

Offline twik

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #875 on: February 06, 2013, 04:23:01 PM »
Quote
Actually there was!  It was called: "The Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies", and it came into force in October 1967...It was a UN treaty that was signed by the US the UK and the USSR.  It is now referred to simply as "The Outer Space Treaty".  It proves that there was direct collaboration between the US and the USSR on space exploration before the Apollo missions.

CBA to edit ProfAifB's quotes for him, so I'll just cite that bit.

The fact that there was a treaty on how to behave in outer space is no proof of co-operation on any space related activity during the Apollo missions.

In a nutshell, the treaty simply agrees that no-one owns space, it would be a bad thing to put weapons there, and people should generally be nice to each other.

If you have a specific reference that clearly states that there was co-operation during Apollo, please find it for us.

http://untreaty.un.org/cod/avl/ha/tos/tos.html

A treaty of this nature does not imply collaboration. Most commonly it means "We have decided to set out guidelines on what we can and cannot do, because without this understanding, we are likely to come to blows at some point."

Offline twik

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #876 on: February 06, 2013, 04:27:11 PM »
Just remember folks, just because a snooty British sounding guy in a suit says something, that doesn't make it true.
I blame David Attenborough for this. ;D

David Attenborough doesn't sound snooty. He has a very gentle ... soothing ... voi.... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Offline Mag40

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #877 on: February 06, 2013, 04:32:44 PM »
Look, ProfessorAlfB, we KNOW you are a hoaxist.  Some cursory Googling shows that easily.  Please stop with the "I'm just asking questions" and present your "evidence".

ATS....ProfessorAlfB: "No, the Apollo footage is already slowed down...You need to speed it up to about twice the speed to see how it would have actually looked. We also know that the Astronauts were suspended from overhead cables to simulate being 1/6th as heavy as on Earth, and there is certainly firm video evidence for this.
Therefore you can easily fake 1/6th gravity, right here on Earth!"


Do you care to defend this? Surely you aren't relying on David Percy again......he is a bit of a liar to say the least!


"Here is 100% proof that Hoax film makers manipulate the footage to give a false impression. A small cherry picked jump from a corrupt businessman trying to make his film sell."

Offline twik

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #878 on: February 06, 2013, 05:15:19 PM »
Great clip, mag40. Even at double speed, the astronaut is still "floating" while moving across the surface, and the gait is nothing near normal gravity movement.

BTW, ProfAlfB, is it your position that they sped up the film OR they used wired? Or both? Because both seems rather redundant.

Offline Echnaton

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #879 on: February 06, 2013, 05:26:33 PM »
You might want to edit that again so that your replies are outside the quote boxes, ProfessorAlfB
It will make your post a lot easier to read.

I already have been editing, but it takes time with such lengthy posts.
If you really want anyone to read your posts, use the right formatting.  Take a few minutes to figure it out, it is not to hard.
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #880 on: February 06, 2013, 05:39:34 PM »
I've never understood people suggesting the astronauts are moving in slow motion. They clearly aren't.

Offline RAF

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #881 on: February 06, 2013, 05:44:49 PM »
I've never understood people suggesting the astronauts are moving in slow motion. They clearly aren't.

That's basically because most HB's know that the ordinary reader has not actually studied the Apollo record. Those who have, instantly understand that this slow motion business is ridiculous, as evidenced by the continuous coverage (hours) of video from Apollo's 15, 16, and 17.

No, hoax believers are looking for the most uninformed person in the room, hoping to sway their opinion. Something that just doesn't "work" here.




Offline Abaddon

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #882 on: February 06, 2013, 05:50:59 PM »

http://untreaty.un.org/cod/avl/ha/tos/tos.html
Flippant, I know, but what is an un-treaty? It's like the disastrous domain name choice of www.expertsexchange.com. Perfectly innocent, but poorly thought out. LOL

Offline nomuse

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #883 on: February 06, 2013, 05:51:58 PM »
I realize I'm a broken record on this, but every time the hoaxies say, "They use wires" it bugs me.  Because they might as well be saying, "They used magic."

"Wire" is not this all-purpose tool that supports an actor in any position you want and makes every kind of motion you can dream up just happen.  If you are going to accept it as a generic term at all, it still has to refer to a suite of techniques, each of which has very different results and all of which have very distinct restrictions.

The "yanked to his feet" wire claim the hoaxies make about one moment (Young, is it?) is a particular sore point.  The only thing that comes close to the kind of situation where one person is holding on directly to a support cable (must be one STRONG person, I'd think!) is the wire PULL from the movies; when a bunch of burly stunt people yank on a single cable usually to throw a stuntperson horizontally as well as vertically -- to simulate getting blasted with a shotgun or blown up into the air by a mine or so forth.  And this is a single, ballistic act; the stuntman is not under wire control after his flight.  You can't just run down the catwalk and haul him up again from where he landed.

If you ignore the specifics of the hoaxie phrasing, it does sound more like theatrical flying, especially the school that uses a direct cable with no mechanical advantage (like VFX prefers).  A typical flight gag has the fly man standing on top of a short stepladder, holding on to a thick padded rope.  He takes up slack and softly drops off the ladder, a bit like the technique called in rock climbing the "dynamic belay."  Again, though, this is essentially a single motion.  There is a some control over the speed of descent (often done by running back up the ladder!) but it isn't a continuous effort by the muscles of one person to take the weight of another.  It is instead human counterweight and ballistic movements.

The closest analog to always-on, always-taking-the-weight is bungie flying. We've been doing that a lot at the house I work at now -- our usual flight choreographer also works with a group in San Francisco that does elaborate bungie dance shows often in outdoor spaces.  The trick for this is you take up slack, then lock in.  After that, the actor is in control of their motions; they can make short hops and flights (but they have to be careful to bend their knees on the down!)

Offline ProfessorAlfB

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Re: why was the usa the only one to go to the moon?
« Reply #884 on: February 06, 2013, 05:53:09 PM »
I already have been editing, but it takes time with such lengthy posts.

Then stop cluttering every single one of your posts with unrelated quotes.

Quote
Anyone seen Life On Earth?

Just kidding!  ;D