Author Topic: Hoax and the internet  (Read 15111 times)

Offline mikejohnson

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Hoax and the internet
« on: January 28, 2013, 09:05:55 PM »
Any idea when all this hoax stuff started? I was only aware of it about 5 years or so ago when a show on discovery had it, which some of those shows you have to take with a grain of salt. Has this been going on before the internet?

Offline Laurel

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Re: Hoax and the internet
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2013, 09:08:36 PM »
Bill Kaysing's book We Never Went To The Moon was published in 1974. Why isn't this in the Hoax Theory section?
"Well, my feet they finally took root in the earth, but I got me a nice little place in the stars, and I swear I found the key to the universe in the engine of an old parked car..."
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Offline Glom

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Re: Hoax and the internet
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2013, 12:43:15 AM »
I first became aware of it in 2001 when the Fox Special aired.

It was a mixed day. On the one hand, it brought the conspiracy theory into popular consciousness so we have to spend years dealing with it clinging parasitically to every news story relating to Apollo.

On the other hand, it was the start of my adventure into exploring the glorious world of Apollo.

Offline Echnaton

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Re: Hoax and the internet
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2013, 09:43:34 AM »
I first became aware of it in 2001 when the Fox Special aired.

It was a mixed day. On the one hand, it brought the conspiracy theory into popular consciousness so we have to spend years dealing with it clinging parasitically to every news story relating to Apollo.

On the other hand, it was the start of my adventure into exploring the glorious world of Apollo.
Ditto!
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline Andromeda

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Re: Hoax and the internet
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2013, 09:50:30 AM »
I first heard about it around 1997 when a friend read a book about it.  Even at the age I was then I realised its absurdity.
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline gillianren

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Re: Hoax and the internet
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2013, 01:59:45 PM »
Actually, my first exposure to it was the book of Bad Astronomy.  I think, over the years, I have met one or two people who actually are HBs not on the internet.  Then again, it doesn't come up very often.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline Bob B.

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Re: Hoax and the internet
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2013, 03:44:36 PM »
I would sometime hear offhand comments about people not believing in the moon landings going back decades, but I always took it as a joke.  I had no idea how serious some people were about it until I saw that Fox TV special in 2001.  That was a real eyeopener for me as it was the first time that I got a good look into the conspiracy theory phenomenon.

Offline darren r

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Re: Hoax and the internet
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2013, 06:43:12 PM »
It's been pop culture currency for a while, given it's appearance in Diamonds Are Forever and, obviously, Capricorn One is based on the idea. I think the internet just breathed new life into it. Or, to put it another way, gave the handful of true believers the means to generate a lot of noise about it.
" I went to the God D**n Moon!" Byng Gordon, 8th man on the Moon.

Offline AtomicDog

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Re: Hoax and the internet
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2013, 06:59:57 PM »
I have to take exception to this interpretation of the "Diamonds are Forever" scene.  It was obvious to me,  then and now,  that Bond had simply stumbled across training for an upcoming lunar mission. I saw no indication that it was trying to be kept secret.
"There is no belief, however foolish, that will not gather its faithful adherents who will defend it to the death." - Isaac Asimov

Offline raven

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Re: Hoax and the internet
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2013, 11:51:11 AM »
The Internet certainly helped that rotten seed blossom, as one of the beautiful things about the Internet is bringing together people of common interests with a common language.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 11:53:28 AM by raven »

Offline nomuse

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Re: Hoax and the internet
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2013, 01:58:01 AM »
I never got the Diamonds are Forever reference.  It looked like a training center.  There were no cameras set up, no director, no obvious way that a hoax was being produced there.  Just some guys working with equipment that might fly one day.  I first saw the film when I was ten or something and the thought that that it was discussing how to FAKE a mission never crossed my mind.

Of course, even as a kid I had some grasp over the need for simulations and training and testing of equipment and procedures before you went into space.  I guess most hoax believers don't have that.

However, on the gripping hand, I really want to know what it was in that room that made all the men in the pressure suits move in slo-mo even when they are lunging at Bond.  That part was actually pretty freaky.

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: Hoax and the internet
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2013, 12:47:31 AM »
I've seen a quote somewhere that expresses it more eloquently, but I have the idea that the internet, as well as being a great democratising force bringing general marvellousness and wonders into the eyeballs of millions is also responsible for a massive dilution in the amount of actual facts available.

In the olden days producing a book was a laborious endeavour requiring effort, research and  editorial supervision. Even a self-published piece of nonsense required money to get ideas out there and then be intriguing enough to persuade someone to hand over their hard-earned.

Nowadays any cretin with a keyboard can put any garbage they like out there, unfiltered, unscrutinised and unedited. The whole tedious business of fact-checking and the actual hard yards involved in thorough background research is rendered entirely unnecessary. All you need to gain any kind of currency are some pretty pictures and a nice turn of phrase. Or a whiny Australian accent.

The democratisation and liberation of knowledge that the internet has given us means that to the uneducated, or to those with a preconceived notion of what they want to have told to them, the opinions of the ignorant carry equal weight on the page with university professors or those with a lifetime of experience and expertise in their subject. You can choose the one with equations and long words or you can go for the pretty pictures that tells you how smart you are.

If you've never matured past the adolescent stage of rebelling against everything and assuming the world is against you all the time, and some webpage tells you that damn you were right and those idiot teachers who told you you weren't all that clever are wrong and somehow involved in some big plot to make you stupid, who are you going to believe? The internet is confirmation bias writ large.

You can then throw an extra factor into the mix. In days of yore (which were just before the olden days), charlatans, fraudsters and snake oil merchants had to actually put some effort into persuading your money to go from your pocket to theirs. They would have to get to your home, or at the very least turn up on a wagon in a travelling show. Now they need do nothing but carry out a one time slick presentation and wait for the gullible to turn up waving cash at them. Not only is the internet confirmation bias writ large, it's available on a DVD on this website for a one time offer price.

Offline gtvc

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Re: Hoax and the internet
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2013, 11:22:43 AM »
Many boys and girls have websites to help them to be anorexic or bulimic with advertisement against milk, meat, chicken, eggs and fish, and if they don't have any guide as a doctor or the family they are going to believe everything, tips to hide the food and how to lie, also some terrorist organizations have servers in neutral countries while they try to get new members with advertisement, young people who wants to change the world, and  the most watched hoax video dark side of the moon in youtube translated to different languages French English Spanish Japanese, I wonder if William Karel is getting any money. :P

Offline Laurel

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Re: Hoax and the internet
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2013, 04:23:14 PM »
I'm not sure it's fair to blame Karel because people misunderstood the point of his video. If people think articles from The Onion are factual news reports, it's their fault for not researching the source. It's not The Onion's fault for writing satire. The same goes for Dark Side of the Moon.
"Well, my feet they finally took root in the earth, but I got me a nice little place in the stars, and I swear I found the key to the universe in the engine of an old parked car..."
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Offline gtvc

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Re: Hoax and the internet
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2013, 12:36:34 PM »
Quote
I'm not sure it's fair to blame Karel because people misunderstood the point of his video. If people think articles from The Onion are factual news reports, it's their fault for not researching the source. It's not The Onion's fault for writing satire. The same goes for Dark Side of the Moon.
Yes you are right some people think Weekly World News is a real newspaper with real news  :P :)