Quiz!

[Chew]

Was the first decline Michael Collins?

Possibly - it was mentioned in "Carrying the fire" that Deke offered Mike the command of Apollo 17 if the Apollo 11 mission failed, Mike considered this but ultimately turned it down because of the effect his job was having on his family life.

The Administrator told the 11 crew not to take any chances and to abort at the slightest problem and he would put them on the next mission back. He also told the 12 crew this. He did not, however, tell the 13 crew this.

[Glom]

According to Chaikin, McDivitt turned it down, too.

I saw Jim McDivitt at Autographica in the UK several years ago, and he confirmed that he did turn down a trip to the moon. He said the only position that Deke could offer him was LMP of A14 - which he refused because (a)he couldn't command the mission, as Shepard was the commander and (b) he said that Shepard was "lazy and inexperienced", "was used to being carried by others" and "did the minimum amount of work required to do anything". Basically, McDivvit went off on a rant about Shepard that was not complimentary at all. He also said that had Shepard being on A13, his incompetence and inexperience would have killed everyone on board.

Is that why they couldn't find Cone Crater?

[VincentMcConnell]

Geez. Jim McDivitt trash talk, much?

[ka9q]

Slayton was incredulous that anyone would turn down the opportunity to walk on the moon.  Yet it was the second decline he had received.

Several astronauts, like Michael Collins, turned it down simply because they wanted to retire. He had already flown in space twice and I guess he felt that was enough. He wasn't willing to commit several more years of his life to the intense preparation for any other space mission, even one that would have taken him to the lunar surface.

I think the number of astronauts who turned down a lunar flight without retiring (e.g., rejecting an offer of LMP on one flight to be in position to command a later one) is a much smaller number.

[mako88sb]

According to Chaikin, McDivitt turned it down, too.

I saw Jim McDivitt at Autographica in the UK several years ago, and he confirmed that he did turn down a trip to the moon. He said the only position that Deke could offer him was LMP of A14 - which he refused because (a)he couldn't command the mission, as Shepard was the commander and (b) he said that Shepard was "lazy and inexperienced", "was used to being carried by others" and "did the minimum amount of work required to do anything". Basically, McDivvit went off on a rant about Shepard that was not complimentary at all. He also said that had Shepard being on A13, his incompetence and inexperience would have killed everyone on board.

Al Worden mentioned in his book about Shepard missing a lot of time conducting personal business when he was Chief of the Astronaut Office.

[ka9q]

Wow. I guess Shepard must have been simply untouchable as the first American (momentarily) in space.

What really got me was the story (from Guenther Wendt?) about Shepard's "joke" on someone at Cape Canaveral. He lent his car to this person who was desperate for a ride somewhere, then called the guard gate to report it stolen. He thought it funny, I thought it shockingly cruel.

[Glom]

Wow. I guess Shepard must have been simply untouchable as the first American (momentarily) in space.

What really got me was the story (from Guenther Wendt?) about Shepard's "joke" on someone at Cape Canaveral. He lent his car to this person who was desperate for a ride somewhere, then called the guard gate to report it stolen. He thought it funny, I thought it shockingly cruel.

Was that person insured to drive his car?

Cernan did play a cruel joke back on Shepard by putting a dead rattlesnake under his desk. Makes me shudder, especially after seeing True Grit.

[Echnaton]

Was that person insured to drive his car?

Once you obtain permission to drive the car, you are covered by the owners insurance.  Also, my recollection is that mandatory insurance in Texas did not start until the latter half of the 70's.

[ka9q]

Were there widespread complaints about Shepard's performance on 14? I remember seeing some, particularly their not finding Cone Crater when they were almost on top of it, from people who thought he was too old for the physical demands of a lunar EVA.

I thought that was a little unfair given how much they tried to do without a rover. The rover was introduced precisely because the lower lunar gravity didn't come close to making up for all the sheer effort required to cover significant distances on foot, flexing a pressure suit.

[Echnaton]

What I have read left me with the impression that Shepard was more from the "seat of the pants" old school of piloting. As opposed to new school cool and controlled engineer/piloting of some other astronauts.   He was well served to have the more new school Ed Mitchel as the LMP.  But ultimately, he did his job and his crew got home. 

[VincentMcConnell]

He was well served to have the more new school Ed Mitchel as the LMP.

Ed Mitchell is my LEAST favorite Apollo astronaut. I think he's a nut-job. I was reading Gene Kranz's excellent book and thinking -- about Mitchell -- how in the hell did this guy pass the psychological evaluations to become an astronaut?

[VincentMcConnell]

Here's another one:
One of the FIDO flight controllers 'invented' the nickname "Captain REFSMMAT". What was his name? And what was the name of the 'enemy' of the Captain?

Ah-ha! I know this.
John Llewyen (not sure if that's how to spell it) came up with REFSMMAT. I don't know the name of his enemy, though.

[Echnaton]

He was well served to have the more new school Ed Mitchel as the LMP.

Ed Mitchell is my LEAST favorite Apollo astronaut. I think he's a nut-job. I was reading Gene Kranz's excellent book and thinking -- about Mitchell -- how in the hell did this guy pass the psychological evaluations to become an astronaut?

Because he, like most of us, was able to separate his speculative thinking from his practical work.  While Michell's beliefs would have been a PR embarrassment for NASA, they apparently didn't interfere with his technical skills.  Whatever else he may have been, he did have a tremendous understanding of the LM that could serve to offset Shepard's technical deficits.  I think of this in contrast to A17, with scientist/astronaut Schmitt as the LMP, a man who had far less knowledge of engineering.

[Laurel]

Victor Vector was Captain Refsmmat's enemy. I can't help thinking of the movie Airplane! right now...

[LunarOrbit]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080339/quotes?qt=qt0484135