Let's build a new lift vehicle

[inconceivable]

Crazy thought but what if they built a helium or hydrogen lift space launch vehicle.  It would lift itself up to the 18-37KM range in the stratosphere.  Now, what if you could increase production, therefor increasing your mass of your He or H at this point, thus increasing your gravitational pull between your (He/H)craft and the mass of the (He/H) of space.  Since space is a plasma of 75% H and 25% He, the gravitational pull would increase with the increase in mass between your craft and space in affect pulling your craft the rest of the way into the Thermosphere.  Is He and H perceived to be light because of a pull from the large amounts and mass of He and H existing in space? Creating attraction/lift craft rather that a propulsion lift craft.

[AtomicDog]

Get thee to a physics book.

[RAF]

Crazy thought...

Well, you got that right....problem is, that is the only thing you did get right.

Inconceivable...you simply can not "bluff" your way through a scientific discussion. That you continue to "try" is most disconcerting.

[Andromeda]

Crazy thought but what if they built a helium or hydrogen lift space launch vehicle.  It would lift itself up to the 18-37KM range in the stratosphere.

 

Now, what if you could increase production, therefor increasing your mass of your He or H at this point, thus increasing your gravitational pull between your (He/H)craft and the mass of the (He/H) of space.  Since space is a plasma of 75% H and 25% He, the gravitational pull would increase with the increase in mass between your craft and space in affect pulling your craft the rest of the way into the Thermosphere. 

For a start, you seem to think gravity depends on what the attracting mass is made of.  It doesn't.  Matter attracts matter, rather than the same atoms attracting each other.

The Earth has a big gravitational pull on a rocket.  If something had sufficient mass to pull things off the surface of the Earth, launching the rocket would be the very least of our worries.

Also, space is mostly empty.  That's why it's called "space".

Is He and H perceived to be light because of a pull from the large amounts and mass of He and H existing in space?

No.

Creating attraction/lift craft rather that a propulsion lift craft.

No.

[Glom]

I didn't catch any of that.

At first I thought you were talking about a dirigible launch platform, but then things just got incomprehensible.

[Jason Thompson]

Now, what if you could increase production, therefor increasing your mass of your He or H at this point, thus increasing your gravitational pull between your (He/H)craft and the mass of the (He/H) of space.

This is nonsense. Gravitational attraction is between two masses, regardless of what they are made of. The mass of the Earth produces by far the strongest gravitational force at that altitude. If you increase you mass of helium and hydrogen you simply make your craft heavier. Of course this overlooks the fact that you can't simply create helium and hydrogen on a floating platform without having the necessary mass already present in some other form. Nor is there anything that would readily produce large amounts of helium. Helium is inert and does not exist as any compound that could be broken down to give it off. You either carry it with you from the start or you don't have it.

Since space is a plasma of 75% H and 25% He,

Since when is space a plasma? Space is space with things in it. Those things are so far apart that it can be considered a vacuum for all practical purposes.

Is He and H perceived to be light because of a pull from the large amounts and mass of He and H existing in space?

No, it is light. It's an intrinsic property of those elements. Condense them into liquid they sink. As gases they float just in the way that bubbles rise in fizzy drinks. There is no attractive force to space.

[Jason Thompson]

D'oh! I see Andromeda said pretty much the same thing. Mental note: read the thread first...

[smartcooky]

The first part of your post suggests an idea that isn't crazy at all, in fact it was done as long ago as 1949 by none other that James van Allen et al. They were called "Rockoons", a portmanteau of Rocket + Balloon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockoon

The basic idea is still being investigated by some agencies, but it does have problems. Rocket scientists tend to like having close control over their rockets, and leaving them to the vagaries of the weather tends to make them very nervous.

The second part of your post, unfortunately, descends into quasi-science fiction jibberish.

[Not Myself]

Nor is there anything that would readily produce large amounts of helium.

No problem, just put a fusion reactor on the balloon

[Noldi400]

The second part of your post, unfortunately, descends into quasi-science fiction jibberish.

Not science fiction written by anyone over 10 8 6  years old.

A poor grade of fantasy. If that.

[gillianren]

D'oh! I see Andromeda said pretty much the same thing. Mental note: read the thread first...

And you get in more trouble for not reading her posts than the rest of us.

[cjameshuff]

The basic idea is still being investigated by some agencies, but it does have problems. Rocket scientists tend to like having close control over their rockets, and leaving them to the vagaries of the weather tends to make them very nervous.

They are only good for sounding rockets, where they can make a substantial difference in the altitude achieved. Reaching orbit requires a rocket impractically large for balloon launch, and balloon launch does little to make it smaller while doing a lot to make it more complex.

And inconceivable...read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buoyancy.

[Chew]

Related to this, how much fuel is saved for raising the launch pad elevation? Say from 1000 meters? Anybody have a Saturn V launch simulation handy?

[Not Myself]

Related to this, how much fuel is saved for raising the launch pad elevation? Say from 1000 meters? Anybody have a Saturn V launch simulation handy?

Roughly 140 m/s less delta-v needed?  (If I did that right.)

[Glom]

Related to this, how much fuel is saved for raising the launch pad elevation? Say from 1000 meters? Anybody have a Saturn V launch simulation handy?

Roughly 140 m/s less delta-v needed?  (If I did that right.)

Out of 8,000.