Author Topic: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.  (Read 74680 times)

Offline ChrLz

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #75 on: November 07, 2013, 11:59:18 PM »
And just for a bit of offtopicness, here's a terrestrial example to practice the cross-eyed technique on...  no, the SUV isn't mine, I was just looking for 3D candidate scenes to refine the concept.

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #76 on: November 08, 2013, 03:40:50 AM »
I tink whoever created that image screwed up..

Try this one, where I've swapped the two images over, L-R.

Added - BTW, I suspect they still got the angles a bit wrong - there seems to be over-exaggerated depth - hurts my eyes!  (I do these sort of stereograms myself (on normal terrestrial topics), and if you get the angle/spacing wrong with your originals, they can look quite weird and just not work..


Your one works perfectly

I got mine from here

http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news97.html
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline Peter B

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #77 on: November 08, 2013, 03:48:41 AM »
And just for a bit of offtopicness, here's a terrestrial example to practice the cross-eyed technique on...  no, the SUV isn't mine, I was just looking for 3D candidate scenes to refine the concept.
Wow! That was incredible. Thank you.

In looking at the Wild2 pictures I could only maintain the illusion by looking at a fixed point on the comet. As soon as I tried to look around I lost the effect.

By contrast the car picture worked brilliantly - I was able to look at all parts of the picture without losing the effect. I wonder if it's something to do with familiarity with the object being looked at.

ETA: Many years ago when I was studying geology at uni we used stereoscopes to look at stereo images. I'd been introduced to them before by an older brother, and in his case the pictures were on separate pieces of paper, so we could move them apart or together to help with "getting" the image. The images in the geology class were on a single piece of paper and the only way I could create a stereo image was to get seriously cross-eyed. The experience was so unpleasant I actually stayed cross-eyed for the rest of the day.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 03:52:18 AM by Peter B »
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Offline Andromeda

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #78 on: November 08, 2013, 04:13:35 AM »
Wow!  Smartcooky's image and the car worked perfectly for me, but I struggled with ChrLz's asteroid one, I don't know why.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Noldi400

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #79 on: November 08, 2013, 05:31:59 AM »
Besides, people have made working replicas of the AGC.
I guess they are part of the conspiracy too. ::)
That's been pointed out.  His argument is that unless they use completely authentic hardware, i.e., iron core rope memory and vintage ICs, it's not a valid comparison. Which, actually, might be a valid point.

What he carefully ignores is that the programs that he says are "jibberish" and can't possibly run, DO run on these replicas.  The hardware is irrelevant - his claim was that the software itself couldn't function. Which pretty well establishes his level of expertise when it comes to computers.

What I find interesting is that he always ignores questions that he doesn't have a ready answer for.  While he has very occasionally accepted correction on one point or another, he usually retreats to:
(a) he's an Engineer Aerospatiale and you don't know what you're talking about;
(b) the Apollo engineers deliberately put errors in the plans as a "joke" because they wanted to plant clues that it was a hoax; or
(c) all the project personnel were sworn to secrecy, enforced by death threats from the Evile CIA.





"The sane understand that human beings are incapable of sustaining conspiracies on a grand scale, because some of our most defining qualities as a species are... a tendency to panic, and an inability to keep our mouths shut." - Dean Koontz

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #80 on: November 08, 2013, 02:58:04 PM »
What he carefully ignores is that the programs that he says are "jibberish" and can't possibly run, DO run on these replicas.

Including through pure software emulation, which was how the code at one point was developed and debugged back in the 1960s.  General purpose minicomputers were powerful enough to emulate the AGC hardware.

Indeed the program code represented as Colossus and Luminary, respectively, actually does run correctly.  In fact, I believe some Apollo add-ons to Orbiter actually embed an AGC emulator and actually run the original firmware/software load.

Quote
The hardware is irrelevant - his claim was that the software itself couldn't function. Which pretty well establishes his level of expertise when it comes to computers.

A couple years ago I looked at his first claims regarding the AGC and concluded that he knew very little about computers outside the Intel and Motorola modern personal computer.  His expertise, little as it was, was very narrowly focused and did not accommodate even a cursory understanding of other kinds of architectures and techniques.

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What I find interesting is that he always ignores questions that he doesn't have a ready answer for.

This is what makes me believe he's simply bluffing his way through all of it, and that all or most of his claims to qualified expertise are a pretense.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Noldi400

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #81 on: November 08, 2013, 07:28:45 PM »
Quote
What I find interesting is that he always ignores questions that he doesn't have a ready answer for.
This is what makes me believe he's simply bluffing his way through all of it, and that all or most of his claims to qualified expertise are a pretense.

If what we've seen is his level of bluffing skill, I'd love to sit him down for a few hands of Texas Hold 'Em.
"The sane understand that human beings are incapable of sustaining conspiracies on a grand scale, because some of our most defining qualities as a species are... a tendency to panic, and an inability to keep our mouths shut." - Dean Koontz

Offline ka9q

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #82 on: November 09, 2013, 04:03:26 AM »
Yeah. Witness the battle I'm currently having with him on Youtube. He keeps claiming the obvious asymmetry of the LM ascent stage was a "joke" by the engineers to show that it couldn't possibly fly; the RCS thrusters would quickly run out of propellant and crash.

It's difficult to count the major misconceptions he manages to embed in just that succinct position. The major one is that the asymmetrical locations of the ascent propulsion tanks are precisely what's needed to balance the stage given the different weights of the propellants. I gave all the supporting measurements and calculations, which he has of course completely ignored.

A lesser one is that the RCS could draw propellants from the ascent engine tanks so they couldn't run dry as long as the ascent engine was still firing.

Offline ka9q

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #83 on: November 09, 2013, 05:01:03 AM »
A couple years ago I looked at his first claims regarding the AGC and concluded that he knew very little about computers outside the Intel and Motorola modern personal computer.  His expertise, little as it was, was very narrowly focused and did not accommodate even a cursory understanding of other kinds of architectures and techniques.
Yes. I laughed out loud when he claimed that the Apollo 11 LM guidance computer couldn't possibly have "restarted" each time an alarm came up because it takes minutes for his PC to reboot, and everybody knows computers are much faster now than during Apollo!

Offline raven

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #84 on: November 09, 2013, 06:06:39 AM »
Oy, that's as bad as the old 'Well, it takes a computer with <semi modern computer specs> to run a simulator of the LM in flight, so it must take at least that much to actually run the LM.'
It should be interesting to note that Bill Kaysing's 'Bible' of Apollo conspiracy theory makes no mention I have being able to find of computer deficiencies. This tells me it is a fairly recent complaint, born of a generation who have supercomputers in their homes and, now, their pockets.

Offline gwiz

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #85 on: November 09, 2013, 06:51:11 AM »
Yeah. Witness the battle I'm currently having with him on Youtube. He keeps claiming the obvious asymmetry of the LM ascent stage was a "joke" by the engineers to show that it couldn't possibly fly; the RCS thrusters would quickly run out of propellant and crash.
The LM isn't the only asymmetric rocket.  Transtage was an upper stage for the Titan 3 launch vehicle that flew successfully despite one tank being short, fat and inboard and the other long, thin and outboard.
http://www.planet4589.org/space/misc/geo/transt.gif
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Offline smartcooky

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #86 on: November 09, 2013, 07:05:31 AM »
Yeah. Witness the battle I'm currently having with him on Youtube. He keeps claiming the obvious asymmetry of the LM ascent stage was a "joke" by the engineers to show that it couldn't possibly fly; the RCS thrusters would quickly run out of propellant and crash.
The LM isn't the only asymmetric rocket.  Transtage was an upper stage for the Titan 3 launch vehicle that flew successfully despite one tank being short, fat and inboard and the other long, thin and outboard.
http://www.planet4589.org/space/misc/geo/transt.gif

Hell, if you want asymmetric, you can't get much more asymmetric than this...






If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline raven

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #87 on: November 09, 2013, 07:31:44 AM »
And since only NASA has ever flown a manned space shuttle. . .
My god, the Shuttle must be fake too!

Offline cjameshuff

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #88 on: November 09, 2013, 08:13:42 AM »
The Atlas V has asymmetrical booster configurations: http://space.skyrocket.de/img_lau/atlas-5_config.png

Offline ka9q

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Re: Hunchback's major (mis)understanding of Apollo TV tech.
« Reply #89 on: November 09, 2013, 09:38:16 AM »
Quote
The LM isn't the only asymmetric rocket.  Transtage was an upper stage for the Titan 3 launch vehicle that flew successfully despite one tank being short, fat and inboard and the other long, thin and outboard.
http://www.planet4589.org/space/misc/geo/transt.gif
Thanks. I'd heard of the Transtage but never seen one. Makes sense since it probably used the same hypergolic fuels.

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Hell, if you want asymmetric, you can't get much more asymmetric than this... (picture of space shuttle)
The shuttle still had bilateral symmetry. The LM didn't even have that.

When it was new, some of my friends refered to it as the "<often-picked-on eastern European country> Bomber", because it had its bomb-bay doors on the top.