Author Topic: Good books about the moon landings hoax?  (Read 480936 times)

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #105 on: August 27, 2014, 11:36:43 AM »
Just try to hop 3 or 4 feet with as little 'push off' as we see from the astronauts.

After he fluffed the maths and moved the numbers from Percy's 50% to 67%, a 3-4 feet jump is covered by having wires to pull him upwards. Of course this contradicts other claims that we didn't see the astronauts jump high, so they must have been in Earth's g.

Of course, you know, I know and we all know that it's just utter bunk with no evidence. You just need to have a leap of faith (deliberate pun) to go from duff maths to proving the the film was slowed by some arbitrary factor (67%) and wires were also included.

Explain the SHM of the SEQ bay pendulum then. I do believe that the motion is consistent with 1/6g.


ETA: Bob and I had the same numbers of posts before I posted this. What a coincidence... OK, no one cares.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 11:43:36 AM by Luke Pemberton »
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #106 on: August 27, 2014, 11:52:13 AM »
You just need to have a leap of faith (deliberate pun) to go from duff maths to proving the the film was slowed by some arbitrary factor (67%) and wires were also included.

And there's the essential failing in 99.99999% of the guff that HB spout. They seem to think that just because they imagine that something is possible then it follows that is how it happened.
I regularly imagine what I would do if I won the Lottery. History shows though that it has not happened!

ETA: Bob and I had the same numbers of posts before I posted this. What a coincidence... OK, no one cares.
Don't be like that! Here, have any cuddly toy off the middle shelf...  ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Offline RAF

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #107 on: August 27, 2014, 12:04:33 PM »
Or in other words, every unaccelerated orbit exists in a plane, and that plane must include the center-of-gravity point of the primary object it orbits.  All orbits around Earth must be in a plane that passes through Earth's center.

Thanks...that's the way I've always understood it. It certainly makes the polar orbit claim pretty dopey.

edit....didn't actually mean to single out Jay's post...my thanks also to Bob B. and Allan F. for their posts. :)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 12:07:21 PM by RAF »

Offline frenat

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #108 on: August 27, 2014, 12:05:17 PM »
You just need to have a leap of faith (deliberate pun) to go from duff maths to proving the the film was slowed by some arbitrary factor (67%) and wires were also included.

And there's the essential failing in 99.99999% of the guff that HB spout. They seem to think that just because they imagine that something is possible then it follows that is how it happened.
I regularly imagine what I would do if I won the Lottery. History shows though that it has not happened!


That reminds me of Cosmored/DavidC where he claims that if there is a plausible alternative explanation then you can't use it as proof of anything.  Of course "plausible" to him means he thought of it.  And it doesn't matter if there isn't a shred of evidence for this alternative explanation.
-Reality is not determined by your lack of comprehension.
 -Never let facts stand in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
 -There are no bad ideas, just great ideas that go horribly wrong.

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #109 on: August 27, 2014, 12:10:10 PM »
It's just creative attempts to shift the burden of proof.  You have to show not only that a conspiracy was unlikey, or that by the observable evidence there wasn't one, but also that a conspiracy was flat-out impossible, even by purely speculative means.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #110 on: August 27, 2014, 12:11:18 PM »
That reminds me of Cosmored/DavidC where he claims that if there is a plausible alternative explanation then you can't use it as proof of anything.

Is he/was he the serial spammer. I'm not a member of any others forums, bit I do lurk occasionally. I think he's been posting in ATS recently? When challenged to produce a radiation analysis (much like awe was) he said that 'you cannot use the radiation data as it is not trustworthy.'

It was then asked, 'what data do you base your argument on then Cosmored?'

This was met with a wall of silence.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline nomuse

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #111 on: August 27, 2014, 12:13:30 PM »
In my ranking of Wrong, somewhere past Fractally Wrong and even Not Even Wrong, and far beyond Trivially Wrong, is So Wrong it Became Right -- in some Looking-Glass, Bizarro world where the wrong thing is so wrong it starts to make some sort of twisted sense.

I am reminded of an old Asimov science essay...The Relativity of Wrong.

Hard to believe he's been gone for over 20 years...I miss his wisdom.

I love that essay and post links to it all the time.

Offline Andromeda

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #112 on: August 27, 2014, 12:33:27 PM »
'If I take the Apollo footage (Young's jump salute) and increase its speed to 150% (3/2 times) it looks like a man moving in Earth's gravity.

That claim by itself boggles my mind.  If people think it looks like movement in Earth gravity, then they should set up a camera and film themselves replicating those exact movements.  Just try to hop 3 or 4 feet with as little 'push off' as we see from the astronauts.  If people would just open their eyes, get off their butts and perform a simple experiment, they'd learn something.

Like they did on Mythbusters - they did it in Earth gravity on wires and then in equivalent of lunar gravity on the vomit comet.  I really enjoyed that one.
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline RAF

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #113 on: August 27, 2014, 12:44:36 PM »
I love that essay and post links to it all the time.

Yeah, I must have linked to it at least 3 times over the years. Personally, I own about hmmm...85 to 90% of his science essay books...I wish his family would release all of them to the internet, but I understand there is money to be made.

Offline Allan F

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #114 on: August 27, 2014, 12:45:04 PM »
edit....didn't actually mean to single out Jay's post...my thanks also to Bob B. and Allan F. for their posts. :)

Well, it should be possible to calculate the needed thrust as a function of vehicle mass and the latitude (can't remember what's latitude or longtitude - bear over with me if I'm wrong) required.

In an equatorial orbit, the thrust should be zero, in a "polar Jarrah orbit" the thrust should be equal to the gravity exerted on the craft.
Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #115 on: August 27, 2014, 12:45:11 PM »
I am reminded of an old Asimov science essay...The Relativity of Wrong.

That's an interesting article, and helps me frame the conspiracy theorists mindset. When reading through I thought about the Moon and its atmosphere. I've seen ka9q use the Moon's atmosphere as an example.

Conventional wisdom tells us that the Moon has no atmosphere but it does, as reported by this NASA article. It is a niche area of science and not relevant when we talk about the vacuum of space and astronauts, so for all intents and purposes we omit this information and yield to a model that fits our everyday needs. Consequently, the idea that the Moon has no atmosphere pervades common language, much like 'close the door you'll let the cold in' or 'heat rises.' When we talk about science in a colloquial sense, we omit the detail or speak with misconceptions, but everyone understands our meaning.

The conspiracy theorist armed with a little knowledge seizes upon words. A good example is Jarrah and the Clavius article about moon rocks:

Geologists say lunar rocks aren't any different from the basalts found in earth's oceans. Clearly NASA just recovered seabed basalts and passed them off as lunar rocks.

It's not true that geologists don't see a major difference between earth seabed basalts and lunar rocks. Lunar rocks are anhydrous -- they contain no water and there is no evidence of the presence of water in their formation. This is not true of seabed basalts. Seabed basalts are simply the earth mineral that most closely resembles lunar rock.


(reproduced without the kind permission of the author)

Of course, with recent data confirming the presence of water on the Moon, Jay is a big poopy-face liar once more. Aside from where the main sources of water are found (at the poles and in the shadows of craters) and where Apollo landed (equatorial regions in direct sunlight), the main point is the presence of water in their formation. I take this to read that the rocks were not formed in the presence of vast quantities of water, and therefore do not contain the quantity of secondary minerals associated with rocks formed on Earth where water is abundant.

Again, my interpretation of Clavius  is that Jay has taken a vast subject (Lunar geology) and explained it in one paragraph. The conclusion is correct without the needing to faithfully reproduce the supporting data and niche science. In the mind of a conspiracist Jay is covering up the lie. In the mind of a rational thinker, Jay is trying to convey the main point.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 01:27:34 PM by Luke Pemberton »
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline gwiz

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #116 on: August 27, 2014, 12:46:14 PM »

Again, I cannot find the post, but the C rock photo also appeared on the front of a magazine within weeks of the Apollo 16 landings. Again, no C was visible on the rock. I'm sure the magazine cover was posted when on the proboards.
It's here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/83874396@N06/13325730833/

Edit: I see I was beaten to it, should have read more of the thread.
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Offline Chew

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #117 on: August 27, 2014, 12:50:12 PM »
Is this type of orbit even possible?...or is it just a question of power. Wouldn't such a craft have to be under constant thrust to maintain such an orbit?

On a metabunk thread about Malaysia flight 17 one poster was certain the shoot down was seen by US spy satellites because the US would certainly have "parked" spy satellites over the area to monitor the unrest in the Ukraine.

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #118 on: August 27, 2014, 01:08:03 PM »
On a metabunk thread about Malaysia flight 17 one poster was certain the shoot down was seen by US spy satellites because the US would certainly have "parked" spy satellites over the area to monitor the unrest in the Ukraine.

They just use air brakes.  ;D
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Good books about the moon landings hoax?
« Reply #119 on: August 27, 2014, 01:35:54 PM »
They just use air brakes.  ;D

A big anchor and a very long chain?  :o
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov