JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots

[profmunkin]

Lunarorbit you maybe correct.
JFK also halted the Bay of Pigs invasion, Operation Mongoose attacks on Cuba, Operation S-Force intended to assassinate Cubian leaders and JFK told Kruschev America would discontinue our aggressions against Cuba.

Again JFK appeared to be offering to build the first bridge to peace with Russia and Cuba.
From watching video of Oswald I did not agree with his statements, but they were thought out and he seemed to be an aware, well read person.
If Oswald was someone aware and concerned with Cuba and communism to actively demonstrate in the streets, it seems odd he missed the speeches and actions of JFK toward peace?

[profmunkin]

I have posted a variety of story lines connected to the JKF assassination to, maybe too quickly, sketch a scenario that comfortably fits the evidence and actions of people that are associated with these events.
Maybe I should have started this thread by asking if it is conceivable that JFK assassination was a conspiracy?

Answer  yes, then I would ask that we first examine that information and evidence that you find that tends to support a conspiracy.


If your answer is no and everything fits perfectly, then any information I may present will just be debated, uh huh, na huh...



 

[profmunkin]

3 shooters and 6 shots
shot 1 - JFK hit in throat from the front - Grassy Knoll
shot 2 - JFK - hit in the back from the rear - Dal-Tex Building or TSBD
shot 3 - JC - hit in the back from the rear - TSBD or Dal-Tex Building
Limo slows or momentarily comes to a stop
shot 1 - JFK hit in temple from the front - Grassy Knoll
shot 2 - miss - hits curb, Teague wounded - Dal-Tex Building or TSBD
shot 3 - miss - hits the dash molding, debris cracks windshield - TSBD or Dal-Tex Building
 - 2 guys in the front seat react and duck.

The order of the shots may not be accurately determined, nor the exact firing positions.

Last 2 shots miss high because the deceleration of the limo

[gillianren]

What evidence do you have of that? 

[Ranb]

3 shooters and 6 shots
shot 1 - JFK hit in throat from the front - Grassy Knoll
shot 2 - JFK - hit in the back from the rear - Dal-Tex Building or TSBD

So then shots 1 and 2 should have stayed in the body?  Where are they then?  So far you have made numerous posts but failed to produce a single bit of evidence.  Why the big fail?

Ranb

[profmunkin]

Rnab it would be positive to agree on something, can we agree the doctors that were witness to the neck wound at Parkland, were in agreement that the wound appeared to be an entrance wound?

A tracheotomy was performed on JFK at Parkland.

When photos of the neck wound were shown to Parkland doctors they were in agreement that the neck wound visible in the autopsy photographs was not the entrance wound they had experienced. The neck wound seen in the pictures was not the result of the bullet. They said that the neck wound seen in the photographs was significantly more extensive than the wound caused by their procedure.
A Parkland doctor stating that a tracheotomy done as pictured, would most likely cause death.

[profmunkin]

Laurel you are absolutley correct that it was pure speculation on my part concerning Felts motives or knowledge.
Would you agree Nixon chaired the 5412 committe, that an assassination group was created called S-Force, consisting of 5 squads with 3 snipers per squad , that the S-Force project was funded with money funneled thru Manual Ogarrio Daguerre's account at Banco International and the S-Force assassination squads trained at a Ranch owned by Clint Merchison?
The watergate burgular Bernard Barker had a cancelled check in his pocket from Manual Ogarrio Daguerre's account at Banco International. That Nixon ordered the CIA to stop the FBI investigation into Manual Ogarrio Daguerre's account at Banco International, causing the crime of obstruction of justice.

[gillianren]

As I thought.  Therefore I will merely point out that your identification of the "three tramps" has been falsified when the Dallas Police Department produced their paperwork.  Shockingly, none of them are related to any Oscar nominees at all.

[profmunkin]

Gillianren we may never know for sure one way or the other.
The coincidence is that in Dealey Plaza at that moment in time, 2 men can be found standing next to each other that are dead ringers for the 2 CIA commanders responsible for the failed Bay of Pigs operation, that 2 men can be found escorted by police that look like two CIA leaders in the S-Force assassination squads, accompanied by a third man that looks like a known assassin and one man that looks like Oswald's killer.
Finding a look a like of any one of these men present in Dealey Plaza should be surprising, finding 6 men that are significant should be highly unlikely.
"we are dealing with likelyhoods and probabilities"

The probability of all of these men actually being present in Dealey Plaza must be vastly inhanced by the admission of E Howard Hunt, that he was present in Dealey Plaza during the assassination of JFK, with the stated purpose to back up an assassination team that had the assignment to kill JFK.

This is interesting
The New York Times, October 3, 1963
"The Intra-Administration War in Vietnam"
by Arthur Krock

"according to a high United States source here, twice the CIA flatly refused to carry out instructions from Ambassador Herny Cabot Lodge [and] in one instance frustrated a plan of action Mr. Lodge brought from Washington because the agency disagreed with it."

The CIA's growth was "LIKENED TO A MALIGNANCY" which the very high offical was not sure even the White House could control "ANY LONGER." "If the United States ever experiences an attempt at a coup to overthrow the Government, it will come from the CIA and not the Pentagon". The Agency "represents a tremendous power and total unaccountability to anyone".

 

[Echnaton]

3 shooters and 6 shots
shot 1 - JFK hit in throat from the front - Grassy Knoll
shot 1 - JFK hit in temple from the front - Grassy Knoll

A head shot from the grassy knoll that did not stay in JFK's body would have hit Jackie Kennedy.   Since there were no such bullet in JFK and Jackie was not shot, we can safely eliminate the grassy knoll or the general area as the site of a shooter.

[Echnaton]

I have posted a variety of story lines connected to the JKF assassination to, maybe too quickly, sketch a scenario that comfortably fits the evidence and actions of people that are associated with these events.

I don't see even a sketch of a story line here.  Just a bunch of disjointed claims.

Maybe I should have started this thread by asking if it is conceivable that JFK assassination was a conspiracy?

  Being "conceivable" is a pretty low standard.  For instance I might ask if it conceivable that you are a bot so that we might discuss how bot like you are.  Practically anything is conceivable to one with a active imagination. 

Answer  yes, then I would ask that we first examine that information and evidence that you find that tends to support a conspiracy.

  Perhaps plausible is what you meant.  Every conspiracy theory surrounding the assassination has been shown not to be plausible, therefore counterfactual.  We here tend not to have much of an appetite for discussions of how counterfactual conspiracies might have really taken place. 

If your answer is no and everything fits perfectly, then any information I may present will just be debated, uh huh, na huh...

A typical conspiracy assumption is that either "everything fits perfectly" according to some arbitrary standard or there is some room for a conspiracy.  That is not the case.  As the proponent of an alternate theory of the events, it is your job to provide a full accounting of the events that supports your theory.  No amount of sniping at the Warren Report is going to make your belief in a conspiracy any more plausible. 

[ka9q]

Profmunkin, please go off and read the Warren Commission Report; Case Closed by Gerard Posner; and Reclaiming History by Vincent Bugliosi. Then come back and give us your theory. Otherwise you're wasting your time and ours.

[profmunkin]

Echnaton without going into the autopsy evidence, the evidence in support of the fatal head shot coming from the front is overwhelming.
Parkland doctors said JFK died from a head wound that blew out the back right side of his skull.
Doctors said back right portion of JFK brain was missing as a result of the wound.
Whitehouse spokesman announced to the press, fatal shot was to JFK's temple and pointed to the spot of impact.

JFK when hit, the impact drove him back and to his left.

Witnesses that described the shot to JFK said a cloud of wound debris flew back and to the left.
2 patrol officers riding to the left rear were sprayed with blood and brain tissue.
Jackie crawled onto the back left side of the limo's trunk to retrieve a piece of JFK's skull.
Witnesses said JFK wound was a massive hole to the back right side of head.
Witnesses in the area of the fatal head wound said shot came from grassy knoll area.
Numerous people ran up onto the grassy knoll in response to the shots coming from this area.

Chief Curry has stated in an interview that evidence suggested that JFK was stuck from the front, in his neck and the fatal shot to the head. He said the evidence pointed to a shooter from the front right side, BUT since they could not find evidence of an assassin on the grassy knoll all the evidence was dismissed.

They could not find any evidence of the assassin on the grassy knoll, so they ignored all the evidence.
But if you have done any research you know that numerous witnesses saw the sniper on the grassy knoll before, during and after the assassination.
The FBI even had a tip that Jack Ruby was seen dropping off men in Dealey Plaza, and that was before anyone knew Jack Ruby would be involved in the assassination.
Good question on Jackie not being struck, maybe because the bullet exited back right.

To support the shots only coming from the rear, all of this evidence supporting shots coming from the front had to be disregarded and was.
Unless this thread turns into uh huh and na huh can we agree that the evidence I just presented is authentic and corroborated by multiple witnesses?

[profmunkin]

ka9q
The following may not have any impact on you, but for the sake of anyone with an open mind on this subject, who is willing to examine new evidence, check out Doug Horne's 5 volume book, Inside the ARRB, presenting information gathered while working with the ARRB for 3 years.

While working with the ARRB he was able to view information not available to us.
Some of Doug Horne's conclusions in brief;
1> The reason this case does not come together like a normal homicide case is because of "massive fraud in the evidence"
2> Massive cover-up of medical evidence by the U.S. government
3> Specifically that JFK was killed by a crossfire
4> Evidence of shots from the front were suppressed
5> Only evidence of shots from the rear were admitted into evidence.
6> Skull x-rays of JFK are frauds
7> Autopsy report has been rewritten at least twice
8> Original autopsy report along with all autopsy notes were destroyed by Dr Humes
9> FBI agent present said autopsy photos of JFK brain were fakes
10> Dr Humes was prevented from doing various procedures during the autopsy and when he demanded to know who was in charge, a high ranking Army officer claimed to be the one in charge.

For the na huhers, Doug utilized qualified experts to peer review areas that he was not a qualified expert in, such as X-rays and medical evidence.

[profmunkin]

ka9q I tend to believe people like District Attorney Jim Garrison, that stated in his opinion "there is not a court in the United States that would have found Lee Harvey Oswald guilty of killing anyone."
Jim Garrison was inspried by remarks from Senator Russel Long concerning the Warren Report, that "the Warren Report was not accurate" purchased 3 copies of the 26 volumes of the Warren Report and started studying them.

His aides said Jim Garrison virtually memorized the Warren Report. Garrisons job was to identify crime and know how to prosecute. Garrison stated 1/31/1968 that the conclusion of the "Warren Report was totally false, totally"
 
Garrison built a case against Clay Shaw in conspiracy to kill the President, he presented it to the FBI so that it could be pursued on a Federal level, the FBI response was that Garrison had a case, BUT the FBI wanted no part in it. Garrison did prosecute Shaw in the case of conspiracy against the President, despite interference from the Federal Government and the news media, the jury agreed with Garrison that there was a conpiracy to kill the President. Although found that Shaw could not be connected beyond any reasonable doubt. After the trial photos of Shaw together with Oswald were found, too late to make a difference.

I prefer to believe Jim Garrison's words and deeds versus Gerard Posner or Vincent Bugliosi.