Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?

[ka9q]

I find it interesting that HBs seem to think that we swallow whole the NASA story - as though we did not take responsibility to educate ourselves and understand what has been claimed and why.  Do HBs tell themselves this so they do not have to confront the fact that we have gone through the questioning stage and have come to conclusions diametrically opposed to the conclusions the HBs have drawn?  Because it might mean our experience is valid for the reasons they claim theirs is... And so they might actually be mistaken?

This is probably the single most infuriating claim I encounter. And yes, I think it's so they can tell themselves that we have no valid reasons for our positions. No matter how much you've studied the details of Apollo, you've just blindly swallowed the government line, just as you believe everything the government says on any topic.

[Luke Pemberton]

No matter how much you've studied the details of Apollo, you've just blindly swallowed the government line, just as you believe everything the government says on any topic.

Yet at the same time, the US government that tells whopping lies about 9/11, JFK and Apollo can't keep a lid on scandals such as Water gate, Irangate and the Lewinsky affair. Any journalist worth their salt would have won the Pulitzer by now if Apollo was a hoax.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_scandals_in_the_United_States

Footnote: I'm not singling out the US government as a special case here, only in context that Apollo was a US project.

ETA: I spelt Planck incorrectly in a previous post, I don't think my pinky caught the keyboard. Please don't rib the physicist for spelling Planck incorrectly.

[Northern Lurker]

Romulus

You came to this board claiming you are an expert and you have conclusive proof that Apollo was faked. Your expertise was found imaginary and your proof was either ages old drivel or something you refused to reveal. Added with your condescending attitude and outright slander no wonder you don't make much progress here.

So put up or shut up. Show your evidence for fakery and defend it with facts. If you can't, just accept that you are wrong. Or go away because you don't contribute anything for this forum. Your claims of forum members being paid NASA shills are just desperate gambit to avoid admitting that you are wrong and don't know much about Apollo or rocket science.

And how can I know that they are right and you are wrong? Not because I trust NASA or govt of USA blindly but because all Apollo evidence which I can verify with my meager intelligence and tiny relevant expertise turns out to be true. And all hoax proponents "evidence" which I can verify doesn't add up. For the rest I just have to trust expert with relevant education and work experience. And they all agree Apollo happened.

Lurky

[ka9q]

Yet at the same time, the US government that tells whopping lies about 9/11, JFK and Apollo can't keep a lid on scandals such as Water gate, Irangate and the Lewinsky affair.

I make this point all the time, to no avail. Neither does my point that as an engineer I have actually studied many Apollo systems, understand them, and see no reason they couldn't perform as advertised.

They simply repeat their mantra that I'm so gullible I blindly believe everything the government tells me, and there's no non-NASA evidence for  Apollo. I don't think they even read what I say.

[Luke Pemberton]

I make this point all the time, to no avail.

Yes, I have seen you make this point many times over in the wilds of YT where they are impervious to such sense. It reminds me of the Penn and Tell BS episode where they referred to Watergate.

Neither does my point that as an engineer I have actually studied many Apollo systems, understand them, and see no reason they couldn't perform as advertised.

It is clearly apparent at this forum that your expertise extends far beyond your electrical engineering background. There is much to be learned here.

They simply repeat their mantra that I'm so gullible I blindly believe everything the government tells me, and there's no non-NASA evidence for Apollo. I don't think they even read what I say.

For people that can't manipulate basic equations and use them correctly they have no leg to stand on. That is the frustrating part. I recall when we had an active YT community and the argument with Jarrah was that he makes that many mistakes with basic physics and maths that he simply cannot be taken seriously. What he sees as pedantic, I see as part of presenting science correctly. So when he does not represent the structure of silicon dioxide correctly or does not understand that oxidation means more than adding oxygen, I immediately doubt his position. I use him as an example. So while you clearly write in an articulate and detailed manner, they simply ignore you with their anti-government arguments while unable to reach base 1 with basic scientific literacy. It is indeed frustrating.

[Echnaton]

He is a profoundly alienated guy who lives out of his rich and idiosyncratic inner life and is deeply frustrated that others can't understand his flawed constructs developed through mere glimpses and glances of the real world.  Or to put it another way, he is one of Samuel Becket's characters trying to live in a Marcel Proust novel.

One thing that really stands out to most normal people about individuals who try to psychoanalyze other people who disagree with them is that more often than not they're actually describing themselves, they're more often than not projecting their own feelings of inadequacy and alienation.

I wasn't attempting to "psychoanalyze " you, as something like that would require personal contact and an interest on my part that is unapparent from my few posts in your threads.  Rather I was treating the personality presented here, on this forum, as a literary character.  A creation one gets to know through a few words scattered among various other voices.  Whose reality is not expected nor important.  It is all one has to go on.  Thus the reference to Beckett and Proust, authors whose characters I have been spending time with lately. 

It is an impression of one who goes to great lengths to justify a view that is disconnected from any observable reality. 
So while you may find that more often than not, people are projecting, your presence on this forum leaves an ample evidence of your tendency to respond to others through an idiosyncratic focus. 

[Bob B.]

This is probably the single most infuriating claim I encounter. And yes, I think it's so they can tell themselves that we have no valid reasons for our positions. No matter how much you've studied the details of Apollo, you've just blindly swallowed the government line, just as you believe everything the government says on any topic.

I agree, it is definitely infuriating.  I also think that is likely the single stupidest claim that a hoax believer can make.

[raven]

I like to point out in such circumstances that they have undoubtedly lied some time in their lifetime. Does that mean I should immediately disbelieve anything they say, up to 'The sun is shining' because, according to CT logic, once a liar always a liar.

[Romulus]

I like to point out in such circumstances that they have undoubtedly lied some time in their lifetime. Does that mean I should immediately disbelieve anything they say, up to 'The sun is shining' because, according to CT logic, once a liar always a liar.

I personally believe repeating a lie because you believe it yourself is forgivable, but requires repentance and compensation to those damaged by the lie. What is not forgivable is lying when you know that you are.  If you knowingly lie, you ARE a liar.

I think it is a safe assumption that if you lie about one thing, given the motivation you will lie about anything.

 I have a weighty disadvantage when dealing with folks like yourself and that is that I am constrained by my own morals and ethics to only make claims that I believe myself to be true. I may be wrong and I do not deny I have been before, but if you prove it to me I will admit it. I don't see where you've proved anything in opposition to my claims, you've simply waved hands ,piled on ,declared me a loon and claimed I am unqualified to have an opinion or reach a conclusion.

I believe that if I lie to you even though you identify as my enemy that I have dishonored only myself. I may not reveal weaknesses, but I won't lie about them.
Your position seems to be that it is fair game to lie to me and about me because I am the opposition, you have a far different set of rules to abide in that gives you a tremendous advantage. You do realize that, don't you?

[Romulus]

He is a profoundly alienated guy who lives out of his rich and idiosyncratic inner life and is deeply frustrated that others can't understand his flawed constructs developed through mere glimpses and glances of the real world.  Or to put it another way, he is one of Samuel Becket's characters trying to live in a Marcel Proust novel.

One thing that really stands out to most normal people about individuals who try to psychoanalyze other people who disagree with them is that more often than not they're actually describing themselves, they're more often than not projecting their own feelings of inadequacy and alienation.

I wasn't attempting to "psychoanalyze " you, as something like that would require personal contact and an interest on my part that is unapparent from my few posts in your threads.  Rather I was treating the personality presented here, on this forum, as a literary character.  A creation one gets to know through a few words scattered among various other voices.  Whose reality is not expected nor important.  It is all one has to go on.  Thus the reference to Beckett and Proust, authors whose characters I have been spending time with lately. 

It is an impression of one who goes to great lengths to justify a view that is disconnected from any observable reality. 
So while you may find that more often than not, people are projecting, your presence on this forum leaves an ample evidence of your tendency to respond to others through an idiosyncratic focus.

In other words your post was psychobabble with the sole intent of personally deriding and attacking my character and integrity while actually having no idea or concern of the validity of my position or my competence in arriving at my conclusions.

 It all you folks do here on these trap and whack NASA propaganda forums.Why do you think I posted here in the first place if it were not to prove you have no interest in approaching the question of the Apollo saga in a scientific manner devoid of these personal attacks and these non-intellectual ego driven displays of defective personality traits and mental abnormalities. You're all living in some sort of alternate reality where you don't realize how socially isolated ,obnoxious and WRONG you are about a wide variety of things.

The Apollo hoax is the focus of your attention because it is your job, and you are given this job because you have all of the qualifications, a disregard for truth, a personal interest in promulgating the hoax and personalities that allow you to lash out and attack people not because they are wrong, but because they are right. I wonder do you ever think about the possibility that these methods that are calculated to be psychologically damaging may actually be destroying people who are not mentally strong simply because they see a truth you are hired to cover up?

Sure, some of them are whacked out loons with crazy ideas (and trust me, you have some whacked out loons on your side of the debate!), but even a whacked out loon can see the truth sometimes and with NASA and it's many outrageous claims, it tends to bring out the worst in everyone including you

[gillianren]

Strongly disagree. Far better to give him the rope he desires to publicly demonstrate what he really is. And he will. He cannot help himself. He believes so many abhorrent things that he simply has not the self control to prevent himself descending into spittle filled rage.

How much rope is enough?  Anyone who can't tell how vile Romulus is by this point simply isn't paying attention.  He has nothing of value to contribute to the conversation.  He is personally abusive to individuals here and broadly abusive to categories into which individuals here belong.  (You're damned right I'm a feminist.)  Why should we listen to him?  What is being contributed?

[Chief]

In other words your post was psychobabble with the sole intent of personally deriding and attacking my character and integrity while actually having no idea or concern of the validity of my position or my competence in arriving at my conclusions.

That's because you have not demonstrated any competence. You still don't seem to understand that most here do understand how the Apollo missions were achieved and none of them have found any anomalies. This is due to their own knowledge, not from believing NASA. That is why you have no validity. You are just plain wrong.

 It all you folks do here on these trap and whack NASA propaganda forums.Why do you think I posted here in the first place if it were not to prove you have no interest in approaching the question of the Apollo saga in a scientific manner devoid of these personal attacks and these non-intellectual ego driven displays of defective personality traits and mental abnormalities. You're all living in some sort of alternate reality where you don't realize how socially isolated ,obnoxious and WRONG you are about a wide variety of things.

Again, wrong. You don't follow a scientific manner. If you had, and you understood, You wouldn't think the Apollo missions were fake. Circular reasoning, I know, but occasionally it has to be said.


The Apollo hoax is the focus of your attention because it is your job, and you are given this job because you have all of the qualifications, a disregard for truth, a personal interest in promulgating the hoax and personalities that allow you to lash out and attack people not because they are wrong, but because they are right.

The Apollo hoax, and the dismantling of ignorance is one of our pastimes. Some here are more dedicated than others but it is not a job that was given nor offered. In regards to disregarding the truth, nothing could be further from the truth. Did it ever occur to you that what you consider 'promulgating the hoax' is actually solid knowledge that we are right and you are wrong? We don't change our stance because we know, to the best of our ability, the truth. A red car will always be a red car no matter how many times someone says it's green.


I wonder do you ever think about the possibility that these methods that are calculated to be psychologically damaging may actually be destroying people who are not mentally strong simply because they see a truth you are hired to cover up?

That's a ridiculous question. Other peoples mental welfare is not our responsibility and I would still love to know who is supposed to have hired me. I could throw it back at you. Have you ever thought about the possibility that you are psychologically damaging people by proposing ridiculous hoaxes just to give yourself an ego boost?


Sure, some of them are whacked out loons with crazy ideas (and trust me, you have some whacked out loons on your side of the debate!), but even a whacked out loon can see the truth sometimes and with NASA and it's many outrageous claims, it tends to bring out the worst in everyone including you.

Wacked out loons have nothing to do with it on either side of the fence. If you can't see the truth and understand the science, you're not a whacked out loon, you're just wrong.

[BazBear]

He is a profoundly alienated guy who lives out of his rich and idiosyncratic inner life and is deeply frustrated that others can't understand his flawed constructs developed through mere glimpses and glances of the real world.  Or to put it another way, he is one of Samuel Becket's characters trying to live in a Marcel Proust novel.

One thing that really stands out to most normal people about individuals who try to psychoanalyze other people who disagree with them is that more often than not they're actually describing themselves, they're more often than not projecting their own feelings of inadequacy and alienation.

I wasn't attempting to "psychoanalyze " you, as something like that would require personal contact and an interest on my part that is unapparent from my few posts in your threads.  Rather I was treating the personality presented here, on this forum, as a literary character.  A creation one gets to know through a few words scattered among various other voices.  Whose reality is not expected nor important.  It is all one has to go on.  Thus the reference to Beckett and Proust, authors whose characters I have been spending time with lately. 

It is an impression of one who goes to great lengths to justify a view that is disconnected from any observable reality. 
So while you may find that more often than not, people are projecting, your presence on this forum leaves an ample evidence of your tendency to respond to others through an idiosyncratic focus.

In other words your post was psychobabble with the sole intent of personally deriding and attacking my character and integrity while actually having no idea or concern of the validity of my position or my competence in arriving at my conclusions.

 It all you folks do here on these trap and whack NASA propaganda forums.Why do you think I posted here in the first place if it were not to prove you have no interest in approaching the question of the Apollo saga in a scientific manner devoid of these personal attacks and these non-intellectual ego driven displays of defective personality traits and mental abnormalities. You're all living in some sort of alternate reality where you don't realize how socially isolated ,obnoxious and WRONG you are about a wide variety of things.

The Apollo hoax is the focus of your attention because it is your job, and you are given this job because you have all of the qualifications, a disregard for truth, a personal interest in promulgating the hoax and personalities that allow you to lash out and attack people not because they are wrong, but because they are right. I wonder do you ever think about the possibility that these methods that are calculated to be psychologically damaging may actually be destroying people who are not mentally strong simply because they see a truth you are hired to cover up?

Sure, some of them are whacked out loons with crazy ideas (and trust me, you have some whacked out loons on your side of the debate!), but even a whacked out loon can see the truth sometimes and with NASA and it's many outrageous claims, it tends to bring out the worst in everyone including you

Well my goodness  If your feelings are that easily hurt, especially after all the vile shit you've dished out, perhaps it would be best for you not to play on interwebz forums, at least until you find your big boy pants.

[Romulus]

He is a profoundly alienated guy who lives out of his rich and idiosyncratic inner life and is deeply frustrated that others can't understand his flawed constructs developed through mere glimpses and glances of the real world.  Or to put it another way, he is one of Samuel Becket's characters trying to live in a Marcel Proust novel.

One thing that really stands out to most normal people about individuals who try to psychoanalyze other people who disagree with them is that more often than not they're actually describing themselves, they're more often than not projecting their own feelings of inadequacy and alienation.

I wasn't attempting to "psychoanalyze " you, as something like that would require personal contact and an interest on my part that is unapparent from my few posts in your threads.  Rather I was treating the personality presented here, on this forum, as a literary character.  A creation one gets to know through a few words scattered among various other voices.  Whose reality is not expected nor important.  It is all one has to go on.  Thus the reference to Beckett and Proust, authors whose characters I have been spending time with lately. 

It is an impression of one who goes to great lengths to justify a view that is disconnected from any observable reality. 
So while you may find that more often than not, people are projecting, your presence on this forum leaves an ample evidence of your tendency to respond to others through an idiosyncratic focus.

In other words your post was psychobabble with the sole intent of personally deriding and attacking my character and integrity while actually having no idea or concern of the validity of my position or my competence in arriving at my conclusions.

 It all you folks do here on these trap and whack NASA propaganda forums.Why do you think I posted here in the first place if it were not to prove you have no interest in approaching the question of the Apollo saga in a scientific manner devoid of these personal attacks and these non-intellectual ego driven displays of defective personality traits and mental abnormalities. You're all living in some sort of alternate reality where you don't realize how socially isolated ,obnoxious and WRONG you are about a wide variety of things.

The Apollo hoax is the focus of your attention because it is your job, and you are given this job because you have all of the qualifications, a disregard for truth, a personal interest in promulgating the hoax and personalities that allow you to lash out and attack people not because they are wrong, but because they are right. I wonder do you ever think about the possibility that these methods that are calculated to be psychologically damaging may actually be destroying people who are not mentally strong simply because they see a truth you are hired to cover up?

Sure, some of them are whacked out loons with crazy ideas (and trust me, you have some whacked out loons on your side of the debate!), but even a whacked out loon can see the truth sometimes and with NASA and it's many outrageous claims, it tends to bring out the worst in everyone including you

Well my goodness  If your feelings are that easily hurt, especially after all the vile shit you've dished out, perhaps it would be best for you not to play on interwebz forums, at least until you find your big boy pants.

If you believe you have "hurt my feelings" you are giving yourself far too much undeserved credit. I am quite aware of the effects I am having on at least some of you and I am satisfied that I have proved what I set out to, that you are not at all interested in proving your claims of great achievements using any acceptable scientific method or civilized rules of debate, you're really just a bunch of cretinous monkey brained idiots throwing feces on anyone who provides scientific disqualifications that you cannot address and patting each other on the back. Not a one of you has an independent opinion on anything because your opinions are bought and paid for and part of a larger agenda to corrode society and imprison the human race in a self serving fabricated reality with zero in common with actual reality.

HAVE A NICE NITE....keep in mind, if you find yourself having to censor the words of one man engaging many in a wildly unbalanced contest, you are admitting you are totally inadequate to the task..

[onebigmonkey]

In other words your post was psychobabble with the sole intent of personally deriding and attacking my character and integrity while actually having no idea or concern of the validity of my position or my competence in arriving at my conclusions.

One of the first things requested of you when you rode in here on your grand chariot pulled by bejewelled elephants was to provide some sort of verification of the grand claims you made (the accompanying slave fanfare was a nice touch) to superior knowledge and proof of a conspiracy. You have not seen fit to demonstrate the validity of your position or your competence, let alone any conclusions.

It all you folks do here on these trap and whack NASA propaganda forums.Why do you think I posted here in the first place if it were not to prove you have no interest in approaching the question of the Apollo saga in a scientific manner devoid of these personal attacks and these non-intellectual ego driven displays of defective personality traits and mental abnormalities. You're all living in some sort of alternate reality where you don't realize how socially isolated ,obnoxious and WRONG you are about a wide variety of things.

So you're a troll as well as a hypoocrite?

The Apollo hoax is the focus of your attention because it is your job, and you are given this job because you have all of the qualifications, a disregard for truth, a personal interest in promulgating the hoax and personalities that allow you to lash out and attack people not because they are wrong, but because they are right.

This is a lie. It is no-one here's job to demonstrate that you are completely wrong and living in a deluded fantasy world. We do it for fun. If you think I get paid for this, I suggest you get to work and find out which office I work in, who pays me and how much. That should keep you out of harm's way for a while.

I wonder do you ever think about the possibility that these methods that are calculated to be psychologically damaging may actually be destroying people who are not mentally strong simply because they see a truth you are hired to cover up?

Ummmm....nope, don't care. I have endured too much abuse to worry about whether their feelings are hurt. If they can't stand the heat they should stop setting fire to themselves.

Sure, some of them are whacked out loons with crazy ideas (and trust me, you have some whacked out loons on your side of the debate!), but even a whacked out loon can see the truth sometimes and with NASA and it's many outrageous claims, it tends to bring out the worst in everyone including you

And you. Especially you and people like you. I strongly suggest you look at the posts made attacking Apollo, the people employed in it and the people defending it before crying about how horrible people are being to them elsewhere. The intellectually deficient out there are far more virulent in their offensive diatribes than anyone here. Take that vile idiot Interdimensional Warrior as an example - he's a really nasty piece of work who needs his mouth washing out with soap.