Author Topic: Apollo XIII-inconsistences  (Read 174987 times)

Offline Allan F

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1026
Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2015, 09:05:57 PM »
A one-time user - who drops a load of nonsense, and flies on never to be seen again.
Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.

Offline DD Brock

  • Earth
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2015, 09:48:59 PM »
 ;D Ahh, a digital seagull dropping digital poopoo. Kudos to whomever coined that term, lol!

Offline gwiz

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 335
Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2015, 06:05:06 AM »
Don't think they could have used the ascent engine, seem to remember reading something at the time about insufficient attitude control power for the no-DM configuration.

How could that be - the attitude control system was not dependent on the descent stage?
Can't locate my source, think it was a NASA Tech Memo, but the problem was that the Ascent Engine was fixed, unlike the gimbaled Descent Engine, and moreover wasn't aligned with the stack centre of mass.
Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind - Terry Pratchett
...the ascent module ... took off like a rocket - Moon Man

Offline dwight

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 685
    • Live Tv From the Moon
Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2015, 06:41:15 AM »
Why is it we have to continually do these people's homework for them?
"Honeysuckle TV on line!"

Offline ka9q

  • Neptune
  • ****
  • Posts: 3014
Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2015, 07:17:19 AM »
Don't think they could have used the ascent engine, seem to remember reading something at the time about insufficient attitude control power for the no-DM configuration.
Probably referring to the fact that the descent engine was gimbaled, while the ascent engine was not.

A much bigger problem with staging the LM was that most of the consumables were in the descent stage, particularly batteries and water -- the most critical.

Offline grmcdorman

  • Earth
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2015, 09:39:22 AM »
Yep. From the habit of seagulls of flying overhead, depositing a mess, and leaving.

EDIT: Didn't look closely, missed a bunch of replies. :-(

Offline DD Brock

  • Earth
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2015, 01:29:52 PM »
No worries, thank you for taking the time to reply anyhow!

Offline Halcyon Dayz, FCD

  • Earth
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
  • Contrarian's Contrarian
Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2015, 03:55:42 PM »
Were there other benefits at all to keeping the SM attached? Did it have residual supplies that were of use?
Meteorite protection?
Hatred is a cancer upon the world.
It rots the mind and blackens the heart.

Offline Echnaton

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1490
Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2015, 06:06:25 PM »
Why is it we have to continually do these people's homework for them?

That kind of goes with inviting hoax believers to post.  If they'd done the homework, they wouldn't be HBs.  And we all learn something new!
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline DD Brock

  • Earth
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2015, 11:02:47 PM »
I have to say, I've learned more about Apollo and the space program in general the last few years just reading what is posted in correcting  misinformed hoaxbelievers.  It's really an awesome resource!

Offline onebigmonkey

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1607
  • ALSJ Clown
    • Apollo Hoax Debunked
Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2015, 01:49:35 AM »
I have to say, I've learned more about Apollo and the space program in general the last few years just reading what is posted in correcting  misinformed hoaxbelievers.  It's really an awesome resource!

Completely!

Every so often one of them will ask something different and you have to avoid your own knee-jerk response of "don't be a moron" and do some work to counter it.

The frustrating thing is that they seem incapable of using google.

Offline ka9q

  • Neptune
  • ****
  • Posts: 3014
Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2015, 01:54:14 AM »
Were there other benefits at all to keeping the SM attached? Did it have residual supplies that were of use?
Meteorite protection?
I think you mean "meteoroid". A meteorite is the remains of a meteoroid that has fallen to earth as a meteor.

The early Apollo literature is full of analyses of the potential hazards of radiation and micrometeoroids. We've talked about how they mitigated the radiation hazard, such as trajectories that passed through the Van Allen belts at high geomagnetic latitudes and frequent dosimeter readings.

The spacecraft were also designed to resist small micrometeoroids. The CM had a lot of inherent protection from its relatively thick heat shield and double-hulled structure, so the heat shield wasn't at much risk.

But the LM's severe weight limits required something more clever. The ascent stage used "Whipple shields": thin sheets of metal held by standoffs some distance from the pressure vessel. (This also created a space for aluminized Mylar or Kapton thermal blankets.)

The idea of a Whipple shield is that a small micrometeoroid hitting the outer shield will still puncture it without losing much kinetic energy, but it will fragment into many smaller pieces that spread out and hit the inner wall in different places. The inner wall thus has a much better chance of withstanding the strike than a direct hit from the original object.

As it turned out, micrometeoroids simply weren't a major problem in translunar space or on the moon for the short duration of an Apollo mission. There was also far less debris in near-earth space than there is now.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 01:57:27 AM by ka9q »

Offline smartcooky

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1966
Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2015, 03:55:32 AM »
I have to say, I've learned more about Apollo and the space program in general the last few years just reading what is posted in correcting  misinformed hoaxbelievers.  It's really an awesome resource!


THIS!! I have learned stuff here that a never knew about even though I watch anything to do with Apollo broadcast on the documentary channels of Sky TV (Discovery, NatGeo, BBC Knowledge & History)

Apollohoax also serves another very useful function, and that is exposure of the falsehoods perpetrated by HB's like the Whimper, Hunchbacked and the Blunder from Down Under. Even if we can't convince an HB he's wrong. the reasoned, researched and logical replies here serve to educate those lurkers who read the pages of this forum, and I suspect there are quite a few.

I have a regular customer at my shop who is a mad keen Apollo follower. He lurks here but hasn't joined yet despite my inviting him several times......Yes Mike, I'm talking about you!!!!
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline Luke Pemberton

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1823
  • Chaos in his tin foil hat
Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2015, 05:58:07 AM »
I think you mean "meteoroid". A meteorite is the remains of a meteoroid that has fallen to earth as a meteor.

So on a body that has negligible atmosphere. such as the Moon, is a meteoroid still a meteoroid once it has come to rest on the surface?

A meteor is considered the phase where a meteoroid burns up in the atmosphere, and a meteorite is a meteor that has survived re-entry. Without the burning up part, what does a meteroid become? I assume it is a meteoroid, as I have seen reference to micrometeroid in articles about the Moon, but then I have seen the term micrometeorite too.

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline smartcooky

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1966
Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2015, 06:52:28 AM »
I think you mean "meteoroid". A meteorite is the remains of a meteoroid that has fallen to earth as a meteor.

So on a body that has negligible atmosphere. such as the Moon, is a meteoroid still a meteoroid once it has come to rest on the surface?

A meteor is considered the phase where a meteoroid burns up in the atmosphere, and a meteorite is a meteor that has survived re-entry. Without the burning up part, what does a meteroid become? I assume it is a meteoroid, as I have seen reference to micrometeroid in articles about the Moon, but then I have seen the term micrometeorite too.


AIUI

Meteoroid = when it is in space
Meteor = when it is entering atmosphere
Meteorite = what is leftover that makes it to the surface

https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Object=Meteors

« Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 06:54:08 AM by smartcooky »
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.