Author Topic: Apollo XIII-inconsistences  (Read 175057 times)

Offline bknight

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Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #345 on: October 17, 2015, 05:53:06 PM »


No, you just conducted a pointless numerological exercise and insinuated on that basis that NASA is somehow governed by the occult.  Your numerology was exposed as being, well, numerology, but also as being based upon cherry-picked data.
Obvious troll IMO
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Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #346 on: October 17, 2015, 06:02:24 PM »
So you actually don't plan on addressing my two very straightforward questions at all then, tarus. Thought not. Why is it so hard for you to actually engage rather than running away and switching to a different (non)argument the moment you get caught out or shown to be wrong?
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline bknight

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Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #347 on: October 17, 2015, 06:06:47 PM »
So you actually don't plan on addressing my two very straightforward questions at all then, tarus. Thought not. Why is it so hard for you to actually engage rather than running away and switching to a different (non)argument the moment you get caught out or shown to be wrong?
Site navigation challenged? ::)
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
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Offline ka9q

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Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #348 on: October 17, 2015, 06:17:26 PM »
'Zulu'? I know that's zed in the NATO phonetic alphabet and, obviously, the people and language, but I do not know the meaning in this context.
Military practice since WW2 (IIRC) has assigned each time zone a letter. Universal time (then called Greenwich Mean Time) was assigned 'Z'. I don't think any of the other letters are still used, but the use of Z for GMT/UTC persists in a lot of places including aviation, weather forecasting and ham radio.

Offline ka9q

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Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #349 on: October 17, 2015, 06:23:08 PM »
You are short of understanding ... of course people win the lottery every day, which is not credible is that one person wins the lottery three consecutive days!!!
He's actually got a point. Any specific event (e.g., my winning the lottery) may have a very low probability, but the class of similar events (someone in my state winning the lottery) is so large that the probability of one of those events happening is unity. You just don't know which one in advance.

So while it's certain that someone will win the lottery on a given day, it is extremely unlikely that that same person will win the lottery on three consecutive days. That's true.

However, this has nothing to do with the reality of Apollo.

Offline ka9q

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Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #350 on: October 17, 2015, 06:29:45 PM »
Apollo 14, and still on the floor but it keeps blowing and blowing ...


The answers are all out there; you only have to find it and read it. Quoting from the Pilot's Report in the Apollo 14 Mission Report:

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To provide a soft landing, a delay of about 2 seconds was allowed between acquisition of the contact lights and activation of the engine stop button. Touchdown occurred at shutdown with some small dust-blowing action continuing during engine thrust tailoff or decay. 

So there you have it. The descent engine was shut off relatively late, and even after it was shut down it took a few moments for all the hot gas to leave the engine; it can't get out instantly. This is quite normal and expected with this type of rocket engine.

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #351 on: October 17, 2015, 06:35:12 PM »
I can not answer so many topics together, but one by one have no problem in doing so...

Well then in the first place you should quit changing the subject when you're cornered on some topic.  In the second place these are questions you should have investigated and answered before drawing your conclusion.  Your inability to provide your predetermined answers to them only illustrates how poorly you researched your decision that the Moon landings were hoaxed.  You really don't have the whole thing worked out.  You asserted your desired belief, and now you're just making it up as you go.

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moonstones [...] could come from fallen meteorites on Earth, like Martian meteorites, which would prove nothing if stones will bring Mars.

No, scientists can tell the difference between stones that were recovered in situ and meteorites that traveled through Earth's atmosphere and laid in an Earth environment for a vast stretch of time.  The only people who believe that meteorites can stand in for Apollo samples have no detectable knowledge of geology.

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As for the landings, but the media coverage was terrible...

By what standard?  In what exact way does that perceived deficiency disqualify it as evidence that you must explain?

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there is no dust on the legs of LM...

Why should there be?

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"engine turned off a few seconds before touching the ground" ... lie exposed for the same films.

Oversimplification.  While the flight operational procedure called for engine cutoff some 1.5 meters above the surface, in fact the records show it was in some cases and was not in other cases.  The pilots themselves testified to having applied the procedure variously, based on their judgment.  Further, as has been shown, engine cutoff and the cessation of visible activity are not the same event.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline bknight

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Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #352 on: October 17, 2015, 06:35:45 PM »
Tarkus ,If you are implying that there is no dust  on the landing pads, you must look at the image library.   There you will see images with dust on the pads.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 06:55:49 PM by bknight »
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Offline Allan F

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Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #353 on: October 17, 2015, 06:36:57 PM »
'Zulu'? I know that's zed in the NATO phonetic alphabet and, obviously, the people and language, but I do not know the meaning in this context.
Military practice since WW2 (IIRC) has assigned each time zone a letter. Universal time (then called Greenwich Mean Time) was assigned 'Z'. I don't think any of the other letters are still used, but the use of Z for GMT/UTC persists in a lot of places including aviation, weather forecasting and ham radio.

Here, the military uses Alpha, Bravo and Zulu time, for normal time, winter time adjusted, and GMT.
Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.

Offline bknight

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Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #354 on: October 17, 2015, 08:34:55 PM »
Apollo 14, and still on the floor but it keeps blowing and blowing ...


The answers are all out there; you only have to find it and read it. Quoting from the Pilot's Report in the Apollo 14 Mission Report:

Quote
To provide a soft landing, a delay of about 2 seconds was allowed between acquisition of the contact lights and activation of the engine stop button. Touchdown occurred at shutdown with some small dust-blowing action continuing during engine thrust tailoff or decay. 

So there you have it. The descent engine was shut off relatively late, and even after it was shut down it took a few moments for all the hot gas to leave the engine; it can't get out instantly. This is quite normal and expected with this type of rocket engine.
I went and looked at the whole landing video, the exhaust sequence is about 3 seconds  after touch down.  so your comment but it keeps blowing and blowing is rather incorrect  here is the  video
EDIT added video link.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 08:37:28 PM by bknight »
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Count Zero

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Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #355 on: October 17, 2015, 10:55:27 PM »
I see no reason to be prohibitive today it was so easy to do almost 50 years ago

What makes you think it was "so easy" 50 years ago?  It was (and is) difficult and expensive.

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right now we have neither one nor robot spacecraft TV broadcasting from space...

Why should there be one?  It is difficult and expensive.  What would we get out of it that would justify the cost?

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...but we are asked to accept by faith that filmed ago so long.

No, you are asked to accept the evidence that you have taken the time to research and compare to your detailed understanding of science and engineering with which you have educated yourself.

Oh, wait...
"What makes one step a giant leap is all the steps before."

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #356 on: October 18, 2015, 07:15:56 AM »

I can not answer so many topics together, but one by one have no problem in doing so, such as moonstones, which could come from fallen meteorites on Earth, like Martian meteorites, which would prove nothing if stones will bring Mars.

Rubbish. Again you are displaying your ignorance of even simple concepts.
1. What quantity of Martian meteorites do we posses?
2. What traces of a high-speed transition through Earth's atmosphere would be left on a rock that originated from the Moon or Mars?
3. Do you think that these traces are present or absent in the Apollo samples?
4. Do you know if we are in possession of "Moon meteorites" (that is, rocks that originated from the Moon and have been found on Earth)?
5. Do you think that those Moon meteorites will be the same as the Apollo samples?


I can not answer so many topics together, but one by one have no problem in doing so,
Good. Then you will have no problems answering the 5 questions above.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #357 on: October 18, 2015, 12:44:31 PM »
No, you are asked to accept the evidence that you have taken the time to research and compare to your detailed understanding of science and engineering with which you have educated yourself.

Oh, wait...

That's exactly the ticket.  Tarkus has more projection going on than the local megaplex.  Sure, it takes years of study and experience to understand how Apollo worked at th detailed level.  Some acquire it professionally and apply it not necessarily to Apollo-like endeavors.  Others acquire it informally as hobbyists.  But it can be done.  And once done, NASA's books are as wide open as any project's books can practically be.  Specimen spacecraft are available for inspection in museums.  Cast-off specimens are available for purchase.  NASA and its contractors present us with a detailed "How we did it" scenario.

Now if you don't have the time, talents, or energy to undertake a suitable study, then yes you are left to rely on faith.  But left there essentially by choice.  Corporate accounting doesn't interest me, so I've chosen to let others, who have the required skill, to do it on my behalf.  And that entails faith and trust.  I could, if I wish, acquire the skills and evaluate their work on my own.  It's not as if NASA requires us to trust them.  It's simply the path most choose.

Conversely Tarkus has evidently chosen not to acquire any of the appropriate knowledge and skill.  But instead he's chosen to put his faith in Eric Hufschmid (and likely others) to give him the digest version of what's "scientifically" wrong with Apollo.  Rather than check it for himself, he's simply let others do his thinking for him.  Time and again we find the conspiracy theorists are the ones with the deepest ingrained faith.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline dwight

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Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #358 on: October 18, 2015, 03:28:38 PM »
...and they are the ones who proclaim loudest that everyone else is going on blind faith.
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Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Apollo XIII-inconsistences
« Reply #359 on: October 18, 2015, 03:38:40 PM »
...and they are the ones who proclaim loudest that everyone else is going on blind faith.

Hilarious, isn't it? The ones that keep banging on about having an "open mind" are the very same ones that deny all attempts to learn something new.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov