Deconstructing Apollo 20

[Abaddon]

Possibly AS17-163-24150.

The lunar surface pics are from Apollo 15.

[Abaddon]

And for the inspiration for the "alien female", look no further than the cover of Emerson Lake and Palmer's album "Brain Salad Surgery" designed by none other than H. R. Giger which he in turn based on his partner at the time.

[onebigmonkey]

Possibly AS17-163-24150.

The lunar surface pics are from Apollo 15.

That's for the CSM footage, which I already shredded

[Abaddon]

Possibly AS17-163-24150.

The lunar surface pics are from Apollo 15.

That's for the CSM footage, which I already shredded

Was it yourself who spotted that the CM hatch hinges were in the fully open position? I couldn't remember who that was.

[onebigmonkey]

Possibly AS17-163-24150.

The lunar surface pics are from Apollo 15.

That's for the CSM footage, which I already shredded

Was it yourself who spotted that the CM hatch hinges were in the fully open position? I couldn't remember who that was.

it was

I've updated my page on it, for what it's worth.

[Bryanpoprobson]

Forgive the necromancy, but I was prompted to revisit this after being alerted that bewaremouse was continuing to try and get mileage out of the supposed Apollo 20 footage taken in the LM on an allegedly unscheduled TV broadcast from the far side of the moon.

Apologies for prompting this, I know how these things grind when they get a foothold in your brain. I am just sorry I can't be more helpful on your quest, I have had a nose around but I feel I am lumbering around in a subject that you have a far better knowledge of..

[onebigmonkey]

Forgive the necromancy, but I was prompted to revisit this after being alerted that bewaremouse was continuing to try and get mileage out of the supposed Apollo 20 footage taken in the LM on an allegedly unscheduled TV broadcast from the far side of the moon.

Apologies for prompting this, I know how these things grind when they get a foothold in your brain. I am just sorry I can't be more helpful on your quest, I have had a nose around but I feel I am lumbering around in a subject that you have a far better knowledge of..

lol - don't worry about it, I feel as though I've taken it as far as it can go now anyway, which closes off a section of 'stuff I've been meaning to do'. There's a whole chunk of internet that has been dissecting this video in one form or another for years now without coming to any real conclusion (other than that it's bollocks), and hopefully I've been able to add something to it.

I just wish I could be bothered to trawl through the rodent's infowars silliness to find the video he posted that is by the 'TheFakingHoaxer' guy - he's definitely linked to something that featured the fake towers in the background of the Apollo 15 LRV and claimed NASA bad guys.

[Ishkabibble]

My apologies for bringing this thread up again, but...

Is there any truth to the statement that "A) F1 clusters were regularly tested and launched from Vandenberg, and B) Site security is such that it's almost impossible to view clearly enough to positively identify any specific launch vehicle."

I saw this claim and I simply cannot imagine how anyone could believe that Saturns were launched from Vandenberg. I thought that the facilities there for large-scale launches weren't built until the Shuttle program, and that the base was never considered for Apollo launches, primarily for trajectory reasons.

[Abaddon]

My apologies for bringing this thread up again, but...

Is there any truth to the statement that "A) F1 clusters were regularly tested and launched from Vandenberg, and B) Site security is such that it's almost impossible to view clearly enough to positively identify any specific launch vehicle."

I saw this claim and I simply cannot imagine how anyone could believe that Saturns were launched from Vandenberg. I thought that the facilities there for large-scale launches weren't built until the Shuttle program, and that the base was never considered for Apollo launches, primarily for trajectory reasons.

No. Even the Shuttle launch facility was abandoned before ever becoming operational.

Besides which statements A and B are mutually exclusive.

[Ishkabibble]

My apologies for bringing this thread up again, but...

Is there any truth to the statement that "A) F1 clusters were regularly tested and launched from Vandenberg, and B) Site security is such that it's almost impossible to view clearly enough to positively identify any specific launch vehicle."

I saw this claim and I simply cannot imagine how anyone could believe that Saturns were launched from Vandenberg. I thought that the facilities there for large-scale launches weren't built until the Shuttle program, and that the base was never considered for Apollo launches, primarily for trajectory reasons.

No. Even the Shuttle launch facility was abandoned before ever becoming operational.

Besides which statements A and B are mutually exclusive.

Okay, you say so. That's good enough for me, on this particular forum, but what facts can be presented to disprove it?

I saw once where some guy calculated the impact points of the first and second stages of all the Saturn V launches, and if they'd come from Vandenberg all the first stages would have impacted somewhere in Arizona, and all the second stages would have impacted somewhere in North Carolina. Except, I don't have any idea how to do that kind of math. I'm a history professor.  I wouldn't even know where to start.

Also, I have read some news articles where people from as far away as Columbia, SC and Savannah, GA both saw contrails from Apollo 17s night launch, around 12:40am or so, and a Time article saying that it was visible from the North Carolina coast.

So given this, and how densely populated the area around Vandenberg is, (Santa Barbara County alone was 277,000 in 1972) Would it just not be possible that a launch of a vehicle that size would not be seen? How do you prove something like that?

[gillianren]

Santa Barbara County is not far from LA.  It strikes me as not unlikely that the entire population of Los Angeles County would be aware of an Apollo launch from Vandenburg.  Also, I'm pretty sure the Amtrak lines run right past the launch facility.

[Abaddon]

Okay, you say so. That's good enough for me, on this particular forum, but what facts can be presented to disprove it?

Cannot prove a negative. I find it amusing that you have fallen for this trap despite everything posted on here. If someone makes the affirmative claim that F1 launches occurred at VAB then it is up to them to them to demonstrate it. Nevertheless, here are all known launches and vehicles.

http://www.astronautix.com/sites/vannberg.htm

Somehow, a Saturn V went unseen because...reasons.
 

I saw once where some guy calculated the impact points of the first and second stages of all the Saturn V launches, and if they'd come from Vandenberg all the first stages would have impacted somewhere in Arizona, and all the second stages would have impacted somewhere in North Carolina. Except, I don't have any idea how to do that kind of math. I'm a history professor.  I wouldn't even know where to start.

That is more a function of politics than maths. The US planned their landings to occur in places where they had control just as the Russians plan their landings to occur in the steppes. Hell, Soyuz still smacks down in the steppes to this day. It is not a matter of math, or orbits or even spacecraft. It is a matter of where you prefer the spacecraft to land by choice.

Also, I have read some news articles where people from as far away as Columbia, SC and Savannah, GA both saw contrails from Apollo 17s night launch, around 12:40am or so, and a Time article saying that it was visible from the North Carolina coast.

Simple geometry gets you there. They were ascending on the biggest rocket ever to the furthest distance manned flight ever reached.

So given this, and how densely populated the area around Vandenberg is, (Santa Barbara County alone was 277,000 in 1972) Would it just not be possible that a launch of a vehicle that size would not be seen? How do you prove something like that?

Do not accept the reversal of the burden of proof. If the claim is that it could be concealed in any way, then the burden of proof rests with the claimant to demonstrate that it could be so concealed. It is a commonplace tactic of the deranged loons to reverse the burden of proof. Don't fall for it. If they claim covert Saturn launches at VAB, then it is on them to show that such occurred, not for you to show that such never happened.

[raven]

Would the Saturn V have been enough to preform a moon mission going out  east to west and all the inefficiencies that entails?

[bknight]

Santa Barbara County is not far from LA.  It strikes me as not unlikely that the entire population of Los Angeles County would be aware of an Apollo launch from Vandenburg.  Also, I'm pretty sure the Amtrak lines run right past the launch facility.

They Hired David Copperield to hide everything!

[raven]

Santa Barbara County is not far from LA.  It strikes me as not unlikely that the entire population of Los Angeles County would be aware of an Apollo launch from Vandenburg.  Also, I'm pretty sure the Amtrak lines run right past the launch facility.

They Hired David Copperield to hide everything!

I actually know how he did the famous 'hide the statue of liberty' trick. Like many of the best tricks, it's simple, dead simple in principle, and all around ingenious. And, as if it needs to be said, it would not work for this.