TOO MUCH EDUCATION

[DAKDAK]

Has any one on this seemingly highly educated site ever thought that just maybe you have been educated so well that you might have forgotten about Common Sense. I am truly not trying to offend anybody, but just for fun pause your textbook rapid (canned) excellent replies to us or should I say my crazy stupid ignorant HOAX THEORIES and consider a few things.
1.   YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO THE MOON!
2.   YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE SURFACE OF THE MOON LOOKS LIKE.
3.   YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE TEMPATURE OF THE MOON IS,OR IF THE MOON REFLECTS OR EMMITS LIGHT
4.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE EARTH AND THE MOON.
5.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE SPEED OF LIGHT OR RETESTED ANY OF EINSTEINS “LAWS OF PHYSIC’S”OR NEWTONS “LAWS OF GRAVITY”
6.   YOU DON’T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU WOULD WEIGH ON THE MOON
7.   YOU HAVE NEVER FIGURED OUT THE PROPER TRAJECTORY FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON.
8.   YOU DON’T KNOW FOR SURE IF THE COMMAND MODULE WAS BIG ENOUGH OR IF THE ROCKETS, LIFE SUPPORT COMPUTER   SYSYTEM COMMUNICATIONS TECHNOLOGY SPACESUITS AND OTHER TOOLS NEEDED FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON WAS SUFFICIENT IN THE 1960’S ANY MORE THAN I DO!!
Let's face it you only know or think you know what you were taught in college, prep school, books you have read or Internet sites you have looked at and believed.

 I on the other hand dropped out of school in the 9Th grade and don't believe much of anything that  they teach in public school about space,books I have read about space or internet sites I have looked at about space. I am simply going by observations I have made with my own eyes or through a telescope on my roof and Common Sense.
Common Sense tells me that the whole Apollo Story was completely made up to rob the American public of tax dollars and give us (the general public) a false sense of reality) sold to us by fancy TV lies and then reinforced by experts in the subject and I hope and pray that I can convince just one other person on this earth that I am right!
You probably noticed that I said PRAY. That's right I don't believe for one second in EVOLUTION I do believe God created the Heavens and the Earth and the MOON!

[Post restored by LunarOrbit]

[Laurel]

I am truly not trying to offend anybody...

Do you really expect us to believe that when you ignore people's questions and choose instead to rant, scream and troll? If you aren't willing to believe what anyone tells you, why did you come here in the first place? Just to tell people they should believe an uneducated troll instead of the experts? Yeah, good luck with that.

[gwiz]

Has any one on this seemingly highly educated site ever thought that just maybe you have been educated so well that you might have forgotten about Common Sense.
.
.
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You probably noticed that I said PRAY. That's right I don't believe for one second in EVOLUTION I do believe God created the Heavens and the Earth and the MOON!

Some of us have indeed carried out some of the experiments you mention, and with a little equipment anyone could repeat any of the others except actually going to the moon, which requires real money.  Number 5 is confirmed every time anyone uses a Satnav, which involves Newton, Einstein and the speed of light being correct to work.  That's what makes science the only method to reach the truth about the world - the testing of every theory against measurements.  You do not get to the truth by blindly believing something someone wrote thousands of years ago.  If your common sense tells you any different, it may be common but it is not sensible.

[Jason Thompson]

Has any one on this seemingly highly educated site ever thought that just maybe you have been educated so well that you might have forgotten about Common Sense.

When common sense is enough to cultivate an understanding of the world around you, we'll give you a call.

I am truly not trying to offend anybody,

Bull. You have no idea how we acquired the knowledge we have, and you blithely assume it is just from book learning. Many of the people here have practical experience of the things we are talking about.

1.   YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO THE MOON!

Irrelevant.

2.   YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE SURFACE OF THE MOON LOOKS LIKE.

Don't I? Is everything ever published on the subject fake then, from all the nations who have ever sent probes to the Moon?

3.   YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE TEMPATURE OF THE MOON IS,OR IF THE MOON REFLECTS OR EMMITS LIGHT

Yes I do. The reflecting/emitting light part is obvious.

4.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE EARTH AND THE MOON.

Actually I have.

5.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE SPEED OF LIGHT OR RETESTED ANY OF EINSTEINS “LAWS OF PHYSIC’S”OR NEWTONS “LAWS OF GRAVITY”

Actually I have. Newton's laws of gravity I tested in school. Einstein's relativity and the speed of light I have not measured myself but I have seen them being measured in ways that I know work. A satnav is one such example.

6.   YOU DON’T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU WOULD WEIGH ON THE MOON

Yes I do.

7.   YOU HAVE NEVER FIGURED OUT THE PROPER TRAJECTORY FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON.

So? You wouldn't even know how to.

8.   YOU DON’T KNOW FOR SURE IF THE COMMAND MODULE WAS BIG ENOUGH

Have you actually seen a command module? Have you seen inside one? I have. It was big enough.

OR IF THE ROCKETS, LIFE SUPPORT COMPUTER   SYSYTEM COMMUNICATIONS TECHNOLOGY SPACESUITS AND OTHER TOOLS NEEDED FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON WAS SUFFICIENT IN THE 1960’S ANY MORE THAN I DO!!

Wrong.

Let's face it you only know or think you know what you were taught in college, prep school, books you have read or Internet sites you have looked at and believed.

Absolute utter crap. I have practical experience of some of the things you dismiss, and several people here do those sorts of things for a living. Don't you dare sit there claiming equal knowledge to people who actually work in the aerospace industry.

I on the other hand dropped out of school in the 9Th grade

So tell me, how exactly did you obtain the critical skills necessary to understand the world around you and the technical side of things that you presume to discuss here?

Let me tell you something about me. I'm a biochemist. I work routinely with things I cannot see directly. I know they work, however, because I have spent years learning the technical aspects of my job, and now I am paid to apply that knowledge. Would you tell me everything I am doing is bunk because it doesn't fit with your common sense and observations you can make from home? Because it involves a lot of education in some highly detailed and often counter-intuitive stuff? And yet, despite all this, the people who work in my field have developed things you take for granted, and they work, even though from your very limited perspective you couldn't even begin to understand how they work or how we acquired the knowledge to allow us to make these things and test their effectiveness.

Who do you think you are to tell us we don't know the details of Apollo and lunar science any more than you do?

and don't believe much of anything that  they teach in public school about space,books I have read about space or internet sites I have looked at about space.

So what do you believe and why do you believe everything else is wrong?

I am simply going by observations I have made with my own eyes or through a telescope on my roof and Common Sense.

And you lack the framework to properly interpret those observations.

Common Sense tells me that the whole Apollo Story was completely made up to rob the American public of tax dollars and give us (the general public) a false sense of reality) sold to us by fancy TV lies and then reinforced by experts in the subject and I hope and pray that I can convince just one other person on this earth that I am right!

With your total lack of technical skills and knowledge, you will have a very hard time doing so.

You probably noticed that I said PRAY. That's right I don't believe for one second in EVOLUTION I do believe God created the Heavens and the Earth and the MOON!

Irrelevant.

Didn't take long for your inability to discuss issues on an equal footing with people here led to the usual hoax believer meltdown, did it?

[gwiz]

Don't I? Is everything ever published on the subject fake then, from all the nations who have ever sent probes to the Moon?

The list of such nations is: Russia, USA, Japan, China, India and the 19 that make up the European Space Agency.

[ChrLz]

Goodness.  Does this subject really upset you so much, dak?  Perhaps you should have a lie down.  Or do you just like the idea of *another* thread on the topic?  Aren't the others going quite well enough?  Anyway, I shall assume this isn't a troll (despite thinking otherwise) and respond to few issues and your list..  Normally I wouldn't discuss lack of education, but seeing you brought it up...

(BTW, please don't SHOUT.  It just looks silly, and makes text less comfortable to read.  Educated people don't do that )

1.   YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO THE MOON!

You got ONE correct!  Umm... what is your point?

2.   YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE SURFACE OF THE MOON LOOKS LIKE.

Yes I do. Can I suggest you bravely look up next time you see the moon at night?  Or do you not get out much?

3.   YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE TEMPATURE OF THE MOON IS

What is 'tempature?'  If you mean temperature, it is actually pretty easy to work out what the temperature of a known object or material would be, after a given time on the Moon, given latitude/sun angle on object as applicable.  But that is all a bit offtopic really, and .. well.. you should have educated yourself on that before bringing *another* wrong claim here.  (And may I suggest you also learn the difference between heat and temperature, as that becomes very important when you are considering something in a vacuum...  You wouldn't want to post more wrong stuff, now would you?)

OR IF THE MOON REFLECTS OR EMMITS LIGHT

That's actually pretty easy to determine, by using a simple camera and a bit of logic..  Again, if you were more educated on these topics, you would know how, and I have no intention of wasting my time on someone who says they don't need education, just 'common sense'.

4.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE EARTH AND THE MOON.

Yes, I have.  And although my method was a bit crude, it seems to agree pretty well with published results (eg the ones using lasers bounced off the reflector left there by the Apollo heroes..).  So, you really can't think of a way you could measure the distance?  It uses some very basic concepts and a little bit of very simple maths..  A 9th grader should be able to understand that.

5.   YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE SPEED OF LIGHT

No, but being educated I understand how it can be measured.  Dak, did you know that Ole Roemer (sp?) is generally credited to have been the first to measure the speed of light, in 1676.  Yep, 1676.  You would have learnt about that either in Science or History lessons .. in those later schoolyears you missed.

OR RETESTED ANY OF EINSTEINS “LAWS OF PHYSIC’S”

My education allows me to understand the inescapable logic of the relativity concept, and every time I turn on my GPS, there it is in action...

OR NEWTONS “LAWS OF GRAVITY”

Now you must surely be joking.  Every moment of every day you and I and everyone and everything obey those laws down to miniscule accuracy.  And that accuracy only starts to show a problem at relativistic speeds and/or huge masses - hence Einstein's brilliant refinements.

6.   YOU DON’T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU WOULD WEIGH ON THE MOON

Yes, I do.  But you shouldn't ask someone about their weight, or for that matter (geddit?) their mass..

7.   YOU HAVE NEVER FIGURED OUT THE PROPER TRAJECTORY FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON.

Nah, but I did a bit of ballistics stuff back some years - it's the same concepts..  Bob B does a fine job of that on his pages.  I'm guessing you never followed any links to that - for fear of being educated?

8.   YOU DON’T KNOW FOR SURE IF THE COMMAND MODULE WAS BIG ENOUGH

Yes, I do and it was.

OR IF THE ROCKETS,

Yes, I do and they were.

LIFE SUPPORT COMPUTER

Yes, I do and it was.

SYSYTEM {sic} COMMUNICATIONS TECHNOLOGY

Yes, I do and it was.

SPACESUITS

Yes, I do and they were.

AND OTHER TOOLS NEEDED FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON WAS SUFFICIENT IN THE 1960’S ANY MORE THAN I DO!!

Yes, I do and they were.  I use very similar tools today, and I know enough about all of those other things to be able to look at specifications, schematics, pictures, descriptions, blueprints and other evidence to satisfy myself.  Even as a twelve-year-old kid at the time of the actual missions, I was already beginning to do that.

Let's face it you only know or think you know what you were taught in college, prep school, books you have read or Internet sites you have looked at and believed.

That sentence and its implication is a huge pile of bull excrement.  I don't enjoy having my chain pulled.
If it wasn't a chain pull... well, shame on you.  If you had even a shred of credibility before, you lost it all then.

I on the other hand dropped out of school in the 9Th grade and don't believe much of anything

There you have it.  Read that back to yourself.  Dak, every single issue you have raised has been absolutely and comprehensively shredded and shown to be based on ignorance - ie ... lack of education.

And now you have the hide to post this ridiculous rant?

If you are so accurate with your common sense, how is it that every single thing you brought up about Apollo was wrong?  EVEN you admit that.

Let's just repeat that - every claim you made was shown to be incorrect - you even said "the replies were excellent"...

So, your supposed common sense constantly leads you to wrong conclusions.  If this was me .... I'd probably be starting to realise something by now...

[Tedward]

Let's face it you only know or think you know what you were taught in college, prep school, books you have read or Internet sites you have looked at and believed.

I was taught a lot at school. No idea what the 9th grade is but in my science classes we had a lot of stuff demonstrated, I then went on to work with night school and took more classes and had many job specific courses over my working life. Not a university education by any means. So I can appreciate that rocks will be different, rockets work, orbits work, materials come in many various forms from the hard anvil surface to soft fabrics that are really strong. And a lot inbetween.


What does this mean? It means I can follow what went on and agree with it, see how stuff works. You choose not to, that is your look out. What you need to provide is solid evidence that backs you up. Would I be right in suggesting you cannot and do not want to?

[Zakalwe]

DakDak, you might want to use your common sense and look up the Dunning Kruger effect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

"Kruger and Dunning proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:

    tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
    fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
    fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy;"


As for your post, it certainly makes you out to be wilfully ignorant. Ignorance I can deal with, as ignorance stems from not knowing. Being wilfully ignorant is a whole other kettle of fish however. You will probably find that most people tend to avoid the wilfully ignorant...as Churchill put it "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

[raven]

*Sigh*
DAKDAK, I respect you as a fellow human being, but you seem to be making this assumption that because you do not understand something it must be not understandable.
I do not have much more formal education than you, but I do know I am ignorant in much.

[Echnaton]

Has any one on this seemingly highly educated site ever thought that just maybe you have been educated so well that you might have forgotten about Common Sense.

Common sense: Def; A belief formed from uninformed supposition and superstition.

I am truly not trying to offend anybody, but just for fun pause your textbook rapid (canned) excellent replies to us or should I say my crazy stupid ignorant HOAX THEORIES and consider a few things.  YOU HAVE NEVER Yada Yada Yada....

Well you certainly have not.  So what is your basis for criticizing those who can and have and written about it in minute detail. 

I on the other hand dropped out of school in the 9Th grade....

I am truly not trying to offend anybody, but the lack of education shows in your posts.

[ineluki]

I am truly not trying to offend anybody,

To quote Albus Dumbledore""--yet, sadly, accidental rudeness occurs alarmingly often. Best to say nothing at all, my dear man."

Or from the movie Billy Madison:
"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Goodbye then, you surely don't want to spend any more time with dumb people like us.

[twik]

So, apparently, your position is that you want to believe that the world is what YOU want it to be, and that everyone who suggests otherwise is lying.

If you want to take the "no one can know anything for sure" route, you must assume that also applies to your own beliefs (religious and otherwise). You cannot say that because the rest of us have not been to the Moon, we know nothing about it, but your looking at it from a roof with an inexpensive telescope gives you reason to think you know everything that needs to be known. You can only throw up your hands and say that no one knows anything.

[JayUtah]

Has any one on this seemingly highly educated site ever thought that just maybe you have been educated so well that you might have forgotten about Common Sense.

I've thought about it many times, and thankfully I've come to a strong understanding both of knowledge and of common sense, and I know very well what you can get from one and what you can get from the other.  And as an engineer practicing for nearly 25 years, I can tell you that the uninformed, intuitive answer (i.e., "common sense") is almost always wrong on matters of design, construction, and engineering.

I am truly not trying to offend anybody...

Not as such, but you're trying to change the rules so that you can win the debate.  You came here presuming that you had superior knowledge.  And on that basis you tried to make arguments that said your superior knowledge of the Apollo program and the sciences that apply to it made it implausible for Apollo claims to be true.

Now that it's painfully obvious to you that you aren't the smartest guy in the room, you're doing what every single conspiracy theorist has done in the past and reject all that prior pretense to knowledge, and indeed knowledge altogether, and claim now that you have some blessed innate property that is superior to informed study.  Every conspiracy theorist appeals to "common sense" as a substitute for knowledge.

pause your textbook rapid (canned) excellent replies to us...

Why do you think our replies are "canned" and merely come from a textbook?  I've been working in this field for 25 years.  What makes you think I'd be successful unless I knew this stuff and unless it was true?  Not everyone who writes on web forums is uninformed and inexperienced.

or should I say my crazy stupid ignorant HOAX THEORIES...

Crazy, not so much.  Ignorant, very much so.  You simply don't know what you're talking about, and no amount of "common sense" compensates for that lack of knowledge.

YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO THE MOON!

In this modern age I don't have to physically present in a place to discover the properties that prevail there.  I've never been inside the combustion chamber of a jet engine either, but we have tools that let us know what it's like in there.

YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE SURFACE OF THE MOON LOOKS LIKE.

Nonsense; I can seen it from here.

YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT THE TEMPATURE OF THE MOON IS

Nonsense.  Mankind has had the ability for many years to measure the temperature of remote objects.  I use commodity technology to that effect every day to measure the temperature of surfaces I cannot reach.

OR IF THE MOON REFLECTS OR EMMITS LIGHT

Nonsense.  Emissions and reflections can be measured.

YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE EARTH AND THE MOON.

Nonsense, the techniques for doing so are more than a century old.

YOU HAVE NEVER MEASURED THE SPEED OF LIGHT OR RETESTED ANY OF EINSTEINS “LAWS OF PHYSIC’S”OR NEWTONS “LAWS OF GRAVITY”

Nonsense.  Einstein's findings are factors in my work.

YOU DON’T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU WOULD WEIGH ON THE MOON

Nonsense, gravitation is not rocket science.

YOU HAVE NEVER FIGURED OUT THE PROPER TRAJECTORY FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON.

Nonsense, it's part of my profession.

YOU DON’T KNOW FOR SURE IF THE COMMAND MODULE WAS BIG ENOUGH

Nonsense, it's my profession.

OR IF THE ROCKETS, LIFE SUPPORT COMPUTER   SYSYTEM COMMUNICATIONS TECHNOLOGY SPACESUITS AND OTHER TOOLS NEEDED FOR A MANNED MISSION TO THE MOON WAS SUFFICIENT IN THE 1960’S ANY MORE THAN I DO!!

Absolute rubbish.  I'm a professional aerospace engineer.  I've been working in this field for 25 years.  I've worked on much of the technology your say is impossible, and all you're doing is spouting a typical "common sense" argument from ignorance.  Just because you don't know how they work doesn't mean everyone else is similarly ignorant.

Let's face it you only know or think you know what you were taught in college...

Nope.  This is my profession.  Nice try, but your anti-education rant is pointless.

I on the other hand dropped out of school in the 9Th grade...

That explains your scientific illiteracy.  Please don't hold your decision against us.

I am simply going by observations I have made with my own eyes or through a telescope on my roof and Common Sense.

Unfortunately that's not good enough.  Uninformed intuition does not provide a useful working knowledge of the physical world.  Besides, since you confess below your Fundamentalist faith, it's likely that a number of your beliefs regarding the physical world derive from that superstition, such as the notion that the Moon is an emitter of light -- the Bible says so, ergo you believe it regardless of what can be quantitatively understood.

I hope and pray that I can convince just one other person on this earth that I am right!

And that's a major difference between you and me.  I want people to come to believe in the facts as they are soberly discovered and studied -- whatever conclusion those facts lead to.  You, on the other hand, simply want to convince people to believe in your predetermined belief.

That's right I don't believe for one second in EVOLUTION I do believe God created the Heavens and the Earth and the MOON!

And that would continue to explain your rabid anti-science position.  I doubt we have very much common ground for further discussion.  You are ignorant of the facts, you resist being educated about them, and no amount of faith-based handwaving will correct that condition.

I find it amusing that you've ranted at length about how your beliefs are based solely on a commonsensical evaluation of empirical observation, then wind up your post by expressing belief in a supernatural explanation for the physical world.  Yeah, I think we're done here.

[Zakalwe]

DakDak's post was typed on a computer. The analogue inputs were converted to digital information, and then sent (probably) by some sort of DSL line to a remote server. This remote server then connected to this forum's webserver, over a multi-connected network called the Internet. The data was then propagated all over the world by radio waves, satellite communication, deep-sea comms links and optical links. All of which were designed and created by the very people that DakDak decries. People that didn't drop out of school, people that spent years learning, researching and pushing the boundaries of what is possible. People that use complicated theories, theories that have been tested over countless repetitions until those theories stand up to a high degree of scrutiny.

Ironic, aint it?

[Chew]

You are what is wrong with America.