Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.

[JayUtah]

Can we have a vacuum chamber big enough to fit a CSM in as well, to test the evaporative cooling systems on that?

Yes, that was done.  And we still do it today, in much the same way.  The spacecraft is wheeled into the altitude test chamber and the pressure brought down to the appropriate vacuum.  Then radiant heat is applied, and the thermal control systems allowed to come to equilibrium.  Lots of telemetry ensues.  In fact, individual spacecraft generally must pass a round of these kinds of tests as part of customer acceptance.

[bknight]

Can we have a vacuum chamber big enough to fit a CSM in as well, to test the evaporative cooling systems on that?

Yes, that was done.  And we still do it today, in much the same way.  The spacecraft is wheeled into the altitude test chamber and the pressure brought down to the appropriate vacuum.  Then radiant heat is applied, and the thermal control systems allowed to come to equilibrium.  Lots of telemetry ensues.  In fact, individual spacecraft generally must pass a round of these kinds of tests as part of customer acceptance.

Is this the Chamber B or is there another one around somewhere?

[Luke Pemberton]

That patent was linked to on page 1 of the thread just over an hour after Baker's opening post.  Along with Dr. Shero's thesis.

Which goes to show how so many of us have found the information, yet Neil has singly failed in this endeavour. I think Dr Shero's thesis was the nail in the coffin though.

I wonder if Neil has used aspirin to remedy a headache, and then went away and told people that the drug could not have worked because all the research examining aspirin's effectiveness had been written many years ago.

[Neil Baker]

Stop making stuff up. You are just wildly thrashing about now. I showed you two images that you clearly had never seen before. One was an astronaut inside the test chamber- the other was as he was about to enter. Or are you that ignorant of things that you never heard of an airlock???
Here's a quote from Schweikart "I remember standing at the bottom of the huge altitude test chamber A in Houston-this thing something like one hundred and twenty feet high and eighty feet in diameter [...] testing and checking out the spacesuit. [....] Not only did I have all of the systems of the systems in the suit which could fail, and the backpack which could fail, but I had all of the failure modes of the test chamber, which could also kill me" http://librarun.org/book/51138/371
The backpack didn't fail and it didn't kill him, ergo, it worked.
Of course, you'll just handwave this away or just ignore it. Again.

Actually, I'd seen those photos before. But so long ago that I forgot about them. The one photo with the radiative heaters? on is interesting because they apparently have bars blocking the direct radiation. The size of the chamber sure seems like overkill but then again with a sublimator sublimating maybe it's necessary.

Your doubt is based on your ignorance of the test. Doubt and ignorance does not mean that something didn't happen. Again, I have shown you the test images and provided a quotation from the man that carried out the test. A normal person would change their view, but you aren't normal, are you Mr Baker?

I am very ignorant. I don't KNOW anything about the sublimators. I can only believe. I haven't witnessed PROOF of anything.
Unlike most of you, I'm also scientifically honest. NASA has not been accountable.

Which they did (surely you don't believe that they would send an untested suit into space, now do you?

Which is the basis of this discussion. Of course they wouldn't send an untested suit. So where's the video of one being tested. Oh sure, they tested them and tested them for more than 50 years but not a single video. Plenty of video of spacesuits in swimming pools but none in a vacuum chamber down the hall. Anomaly. Focus.

By the way, I'm still waiting for your analysis of the document that I showed you here:

Let's see your detailed analysis of this document. With calculations please.
http://hdl.handle.net/2060/19720005423

It's an interesting document and thank you again for posting it. It's interesting how they say they did the sublimator test. They put the sublimator in a vacuum chamber without putting the astronaut inside. Something is very suspicious about that but I need to think about it a bit longer. What calculations are you expecting? Don't hold your breath waiting.

I'm also waiting for you to acknowledge this:

Have you ever tried to look at the ISS through a small telescope? It's not that hard...transit times are publicly available from a myriad of sources.
www.heavens-above.com

No, but I have watched with the naked eye what NASA says is a manned ISS passing by overhead. How do you KNOW there are people aboard?

[JayUtah]

He changed horses though, and switched to demanding...

This is how this particular form of conspiracism works.  As I've been quoted, the goal of conspiracism is not to arrive at an answer, but to mire down the debate in meaningless details or philosophy so that it never ends.  As long as Baker can keep the hamster wheel spinning, he can keep insinuating that NASA and its cronies are "stonewalling" him.  Then he can attribute that alleged stonewalling to evading a test that he deems crucial to their credibility.  And if he can thus keep impugning the credibility of one government agency, he can keep hope alive that his 9/11 fantasies may still come true.

Baker, like many others, seems to like to burden his critics with demanding the production of copious amounts of documentary evidence, which he then invariably rejects according to ad hoc criteria.  Most conspiracists who make the claim, "There's no pertinent record," do so knowing that it's nearly impossible to prove the claimant hasn't done the exhaustive search such a claim would ordinarily require, that few if any gullible readers will question the claim, and that his critics -- in order to refute him -- will have to make an affirmative case.  "No, it has to be before 2007" is just another spin of this particular hamster wheel.

[nomuse]

Maybe they just continue to run the pumps while the tests are running? Now, I am not nearly so educated as many of the fine folks here, and I don't claim to be, but that would keep it from building up at least, yes?

But he'd allegedly be in a hermetically sealed suit for more than twelve hours requiring sublimator cooling at vacuum and other cooling on the way to vacuum. He'd need an umbilical to augment the sublimator. Once low earth vacuum was reached the sublimator could be turned on but that would probably result in an immediate loss of vacuum. I doubt this test can be done in a vacuum chamber on Earth. If they wanted to simulate real moon surface conditions, they'd have to illuminate the spacesuit with enough light that on the moon brings the surface temperature up to about 240 degrees F.
Raul Blanco at NASA's Johnson Space Center, a salt of the Earth sounding guy, assured me they test the spacesuits with sublimators in vacuum chambers regularly. He also assured me there's nothing classified about a spacesuit or it's cooling system.

Let me paraphrase the above:

"Only the specific test I dreamed up can be used to defend the reality of the Apollo landings. Oh, wait; let me come up with a bunch of ways in which that test is impossible to perform, and while I'm at it, throw in a bunch of ways it could be faked, thus be incapable of proving anything."

Do you even read your own posts?

[raven]

And apparently he didn't read the very page giving Chamber A's specifications, not seeing the 'crewlocks' mentioned that would allow entry and exit without having to pressurize and de-pressurize the whole thing.

[Luke Pemberton]

I am very ignorant. I don't KNOW anything about the sublimators. I can only believe. I haven't witnessed PROOF of anything.

Unlike most of you, I'm also scientifically honest. NASA has not been accountable.

Are you aware of the inherent problem with the two statements you have made? On one hand you claim ignorance about the sublimators, but then tell us you are scientifically honest. How can you be scientifically honest about something you are ignorant about?

I would not walk into Stephen Hawking's office, declare my ignorance of quantum loop gravity and then declare that he should be more accountable for his work. I would become a laughing stock.

[Apollo 957]

That patent was linked to on page 1 of the thread just over an hour after Baker's opening post.  Along with Dr. Shero's thesis.

And Baker ignored them then, just as he has largely ignored them now.

He specialises in that.

... if you have the time and the patience to count the number of threads where I challenged him and his wild-ass theories, and it went eerily silent....

[JayUtah]

I am very ignorant. I don't KNOW anything about the sublimators.

Apples and oranges.  You, like many people, have no personal experience with the device in question.  The difference between you and those others similarly situated is that they don't ignorantly deny its operation.

I haven't witnessed PROOF of anything.

And upon that solipsist basis you are free to harbor continuing personal doubt.  You are not free, however, to suggest that your personal doubt, fed by your ongoing incompetence, laziness, and deception, constitutes a legitimate controversy or hobbles anyone else from drawing reasoned conclusions.

Unlike most of you, I'm also scientifically honest.

Nonsense.  You simply make up personal standards of proof and foist them on other people.  That is expressly contradicted in the scientific method.  Further, you freely admit your desire for a particular outcome.  And you happily draw conclusions in the depths of self-admitted ignorance.  Nothing could possibly be more scientifically dishonest.

NASA has not been accountable.

Of course it has.  Your ongoing denial in the face of it proves only your purposeful intransigence.  You desperately need NASA to be vilified as a stepping stone to your obsession over 9/11.  You have explicitly said so.

So where's the video of one being tested. Oh sure, they tested them and tested them for more than 50 years but not a single video.

Straw man.

It's an interesting document and thank you again for posting it. It's interesting how they say they did the sublimator test. They put the sublimator in a vacuum chamber without putting the astronaut inside.

Ad hoc revision.  Do not move the goalposts.

Something is very suspicious about that but I need to think about it a bit longer.

No, you need to provide right now a justification for why an appropriate test of the sublimator in a vacuum requires a human subject.  You may not evade accountability by asking for arbitrary time-outs so that you can dream up more speculation.

What calculations are you expecting? Don't hold your breath waiting.

You have a degree in engineering and subsequent experience in engineering fields.  You have made a argument in the form of doubting the capacity of vacuum test chambers to facilitate a sublimator test on various quantitative grounds.  Surely as an engineer you must know that a quantitative argument must be accompanied by the relevant calculation.  Please provide it, or admit that you are incompetent to do so.

No, but I have watched with the naked eye what NASA says is a manned ISS passing by overhead. How do you KNOW there are people aboard?

Because they have been directly observed in the manner suggested to you, which you admit you have not done.  Do not simply continue to spin the hamster wheel of denial.

[nomuse]

A big thank you to Zakalwe for posting this: https://scholarship.rice.edu/bitstream/handle/1911/14662/7023573.PDF?sequence=1
Bravo! Good stuff.

But I'm still looking for a book published before 2007 that mentions spacesuit ice sublimators.  Abaddon  gave Heat and Mass Transfer - Anthony Mills - 1995 - ISBN 0256114439 but I don't see anything about spacesuit ice sublimators.

Also, I know there's contention about the photograph of an ice sublimator with some claiming it was available since 1997 and my saying I couldn't find it in 2007. I'm sure there are tricks I don't know for bringing buried stuff to the surface of the Internet. Please indulge with instruction on how to find a second photograph of a spacesuit ice sublimator. Currently only one shows when you do the Google Image search. Please educate me in how to bring the others to the surface.

Because apparently one photograph isn't good enough. And if you find a second, then two photographs won't be good enough.

And has anyone else noticed that every time "it is in a book" comes up, it somehow turns into "But I want to see a picture that's conveniently on-line," and every time "a test was made" comes up, the plaint is immediately "I need to see a video of guys standing around doing a test -- actual testimony, numbers, scientific papers, etc. mean nothing to me."

[Apollo 957]

"No, but I have watched with the naked eye what NASA says is a manned ISS passing by overhead. How do you KNOW there are people aboard?"

I'm going to assume this was Neil speaking;

Neil, there is hour upon hour of video, live streaming, still photos, etc. Amateur radio enthusiasts have spoken to the astronauts on board as it passes by.

Your stated theory that all the footage is done with 'green screen' and/or CGI is fanciful, to say the least.

There are regular Soyuz launches from Baikonur, and touchdowns in Kazakhstan, in full view of representatives from all the countries involved.

You don't REALLY imagine they're all pretending, do you?

Note also - it isn't JUST NASA that states this. Canada, Russia, Europe, Japan, etc have all been involved, and have published their own accounts and videos of their own astronauts' time on the station.

[Bob B.]

His assertion will be all of this material was post written because he agitated for the information.

That's the nice thing about delusions, there's no limit to the possibilities.

[bknight]

That patent was linked to on page 1 of the thread just over an hour after Baker's opening post.  Along with Dr. Shero's thesis.

And Baker ignored them then, just as he has largely ignored them now.

He specialises in that.

... if you have the time and the patience to count the number of threads where I challenged him and his wild-ass theories, and it went eerily silent....

I have listened to that video on the past and finally make the connection, thanks.
The questions he asks border on the absurd. I'm glad Dr. Kaku kept his cool and went about answering a lot of quests some not asked by Neil.

[bknight]

His assertion will be all of this material was post written because he agitated for the information.

That's the nice thing about delusions, there's no limit to the possibilities.

The mind is a terrible thing to lose.