Apollo and Stars

[OhPulease]

This might be a short first thread but here goes:

Patrick Moore asked this at the Press Conference-

"I have two brief questions that I would like to ask, if I may. When you were carrying out that incredible Moon walk, did you find that the surface was equally firm everywhere or were there harder and softer spots that you could detect. And, secondly, when you looked up at the sky, could you actually see the stars in the solar corona in spite of the glare?"

Michael Collins response was

"I saw none"

The Hoaxers seem to jump on this but as he never walked on the moon in my eyes this was an obvious joke.

Am I missing something here?
 

[onebigmonkey]

Welcome to the board.

Specifically the questions refer to stars in the solar corona, which can be viewed from lunar orbit.

I have compiled a list of Apollo astronaut quotes regarding stars

http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/stars/staquotes.html

[bknight]

This might be a short first thread but here goes:

Patrick Moore asked this at the Press Conference-

"I have two brief questions that I would like to ask, if I may. When you were carrying out that incredible Moon walk, did you find that the surface was equally firm everywhere or were there harder and softer spots that you could detect. And, secondly, when you looked up at the sky, could you actually see the stars in the solar corona in spite of the glare?"

Michael Collins response was

"I saw none"

The Hoaxers seem to jump on this but as he never walked on the moon in my eyes this was an obvious joke.

Am I missing something here?

Most of what I have seen was an answer to a questioned not directed at Collins.  All of them indicated they could see stars through optical devices, there by blocking out the effect of the bright Sun.  I believe that all indicated stars were visible on the far side of the Moon, again the Sun was blocked.  HB's take many activities out of context and build a case of "anomalies".
I haven't looked at obm list but I'm sure if you take the comments out of context, it could be argued are contradictory. View all the circumstances and that contradiction evaporates. 

[OhPulease]

I'm Sorry but I might have been misunderstood. I believe we went to the moon 100 percent.

I was trying to point out the fact that the press conference is cut into small segments by certain people and my argument is that as part of that they quote or show the Collins comment, this just happens to be a bugbear of mine.

[bknight]

I'm Sorry but I might have been misunderstood. I believe we went to the moon 100 percent.

I was trying to point out the fact that the press conference is cut into small segments by certain people and my argument is that as part of that they quote or show the Collins comment, this just happens to be a bugbear of mine.

I didn't take you to be a HB, just asking why they(HB's) make big deals out of such statements.

[twik]

Hi there! Welcome to the board!

The problem with this quote is that it conflates two things (as you point out, Collins didn't walk on the surface of the Moon. The question and answer really is:

"And, secondly, when you looked up at the sky, could you actually see the stars in the solar corona in spite of the glare?"

Michael Collins response was

"I saw none"

That's like asking someone on Earth, "When you stared directly at the lit lightbulb, could you see the manufacturer's name on the top?" and receiving the answer "No." It refers to one specific situation where it would be very hard to see the stars, or the manufacturer's name. It has no relevance to any other situation where without the intense glare things would be visible.

The stars were not visible to Collins when he looked at the solar corona. That has no bearing on whether they could be seen at other times, or not.

[raven]

Here's what Apollo 11 astronaut Neil Armstrong said when they passed into the night of the moon while in Lunar orbit. "Houston, it's been a real change for us. Now we are able to see stars again and recognize constellations for the first time on the trip. It's - the sky is full of stars. Just like the nightside of Earth. But all the way here, we have only been able to see stars occasionally and perhaps through the monocular, but not recognize any star patterns. "
You'll find plenty of other references to stars if you go Ctrl (or Command)+F and type in (without quotes) "stars".

[OhPulease]

Sorry

I know they saw stars and navigated by them, Anyone who even looked at the apollo experience reports if nothing else would know. My interest is against the rubbish Collins argument. I fully believe we went. I want to know why some people bring up the fact that he said "I Didn't see any" stars.

Maybe I'm getting a bit OTT.

[smartcooky]

It is typical HB fare to use the "Fallacy of Quoting out of Context" (also called "quote mining") . They will quote only the part of a phrase, or a few words, and then trumpet those words as meaning something they want it to mean, when "in context" they would have meant something entirely different, and even the opposite of what the HB is trying make them mean.

I'll give a simple example.

In  her review of the movie "Flying Piranhas 2", Anne Newbury, the NZ Listener Movie Reviewer said...

"Flying Piranhas 2 is a great movie if you want to ignore the obvious plot holes, the bad acting and the disjointed direction. If you missed Flying Piranhas I, here's your chance to miss the sequel!"


Someone then quoted Anne

"Flying Piranhas 2 is a great movie"
- Anne Newbury, NZ Listener

That quote is world for word exactly what Anne said, but removing it from its context completely changes its meaning to the opposite of what she really meant.

[bknight]

It is typical HB fare to use the "Fallacy of Quoting out of Context" (also called "quote mining") . They will quote only the part of a phrase, or a few words, and then trumpet those words as meaning something they want it to mean, when "in context" they would have meant something entirely different, and even the opposite of what the HB is trying make them mean.

I'll give a simple example.

In  her review of the movie "Flying Piranhas 2", Anne Newbury, the NZ Listener Movie Reviewer said...

"Flying Piranhas 2 is a great movie if you want to ignore the obvious plot holes, the bad acting and the disjointed direction. If you missed Flying Piranhas I, here's your chance to miss the sequel!"


Someone then quoted Anne

"Flying Piranhas 2 is a great movie"
- Anne Newbury, NZ Listener

That quote is world for word exactly what Anne said, but removing it from its context completely changes its meaning to the opposite of what she really meant.

Different country but was it the Blunder who took the comment out of context.  That is one of his favorite tactics.

[smartcooky]

It is typical HB fare to use the "Fallacy of Quoting out of Context" (also called "quote mining") . They will quote only the part of a phrase, or a few words, and then trumpet those words as meaning something they want it to mean, when "in context" they would have meant something entirely different, and even the opposite of what the HB is trying make them mean.

I'll give a simple example.

In  her review of the movie "Flying Piranhas 2", Anne Newbury, the NZ Listener Movie Reviewer said...

"Flying Piranhas 2 is a great movie if you want to ignore the obvious plot holes, the bad acting and the disjointed direction. If you missed Flying Piranhas I, here's your chance to miss the sequel!"


Someone then quoted Anne

"Flying Piranhas 2 is a great movie"
- Anne Newbury, NZ Listener

That quote is world for word exactly what Anne said, but removing it from its context completely changes its meaning to the opposite of what she really meant.

Different country but was it the Blunder who took the comment out of context.  That is one of his favorite tactics.

The Blunder is the master of the quote mine. The whole premise of some of the utter BS this guy spouts is based entirely on intentional  misrepresentation of the words of Astronauts, Engineers and Space Scientists. If you ever get a chance to see his "rebuttal" of S.G. Collins "Moon Hoax: Not" video, you will see that it is jam packed with mined quotes, half-truths and deliberate misrepresentations of what Collins actually said.

Collins then posted a second video, "For Jarrah",  in which he systematically exposed the Blunder's quote mining technique, and ruthlessly took him down, piece by piece. It was a very amusing & entertaining watch.

[bknight]

The Blunder is the master of the quote mine. The whole premise of some of the utter BS this guy spouts is based entirely on intentional  misrepresentation of the words of Astronauts, Engineers and Space Scientists. If you ever get a chance to see his "rebuttal" of S.G. Collins "Moon Hoax: Not" video, you will see that it is jam packed with mined quotes, half-truths and deliberate misrepresentations of what Collins actually said.

Collins then posted a second video, "For Jarrah",  in which he systematically exposed the Blunder's quote mining technique, and ruthlessly took him down, piece by piece. It was a very amusing & entertaining watch.

I watched both Collins video but no the Blunder.  I have just refused to populate his "views" with my visits.  However, after watching the series on the Apollo1 fire(last videos BTW), I did see a lot of the quote mining you reference.  There was quite a bit of circular referencing also ie. saying one thought and then a reversing view sometime later.

[raven]

I'd probably prefer the latter to the former. Seriously, at least David Percy is somewhat pleasant to listen to (though the smug, oh the smug!) and Bart Sibrel knows to hire people who are good at narration, but Jarrah? Like listening to a cat claw at a blackboard through the same filters they use to make Dalek voices.
As for stars, the logic is based on 'common sense' (stars are visible usually when the sky is dark on Earth) and movies, which pretty much inevitably show stars in space, no matter the lighting conditions.

[bknight]

I hadn't thought of Daleks in ages.  They did have a screech.

[smartcooky]

I hadn't thought of Daleks in ages.  They did have a screech.

Exterminate!

Exterminate!

Exterminate!

EXTERMINATE!!