FAR SIDE OF THE MOON

[bknight]

Wrong (not read?) Are of Apollo 16 and the AS16-3021, Wikipedia itself uses as an example here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_side_of_the_Moon

And do you believe that Wiki might be possibly wrong?(or at least a little overzealous with its description.

And so you see the Earth from the Moon, therefore, if the image was taken much further, the Earth should be even smaller !!!



Link animation graphic:
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/styles/full_width/public/thumbnails/image/dscovrepicmoontransitfull.gif?itok=m-pCEXqi

The image you present was taken by the DSCOVR satellite roughly in a 1 million mile orbit

[JayUtah]

Wrong (not read?) Are of Apollo 16 and the AS16-3021, Wikipedia itself uses as an example here:

Yes, but what Wikipedia doesn't tell you, and what you have to figure out for yourself, is that neither one of those images purports to be the entire far side of the Moon.  To those of us familiar with lunar topography, it is obvious those photographs were taken about 60 degrees of longitude apart.  The Apollo 16 image quite clearly shows Mare Crisium, which is at the eastern edge of the far side.  The LRO image shows Tsiolkovsky Crater at the left, meaning it was centered over the western edge of the far side.

And so you see the Earth from the Moon, therefore, if the image was taken much further, the Earth should be even smaller !!!

That photograph was taken with a wide-angle lens.  It will make distant objects appear proportionally smaller because its field of view is wider.  Please learn about photography before accusing others of deception.

[Abaddon]

The first image is from the Apollo 15 Metric Mapping Camera:

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/catalog/metric/revolution/?AS16RTE

Number 3021 to be precise, taken after TEI.

As Tarkus can find out when TEI was, he can find out where the lunar terminator should be.

You can make a start on that little mission on this page of mine:

http://onebigmonkey.com/apollo/sides/sideways.html

Where I have used the image in question.

As it was after TEI, it also will bear no relation to the terminator's position during the surface based part of the mission.

Another slight problem Tarkus has is that he is supplying an image taken by Apollo in a position that can only have been done in the proximity of the moon to prove that Apollo was nowhere near the moon.

Duh!

As for the garbage about the view of Earth, the clouds do move:



The hurricane in that was a weather feature observed from LEO satellites too.

Tarkus' contention that the moon is the wrong size is provably false, and easily done with all sorts of free astronomical software

Try again.

Wrong (not read?) Are of Apollo 16 and the AS16-3021, Wikipedia itself uses as an example here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_side_of_the_Moon

And so you see the Earth from the Moon, therefore, if the image was taken much further, the Earth should be even smaller !!!



Link animation graphic:
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/styles/full_width/public/thumbnails/image/dscovrepicmoontransitfull.gif?itok=m-pCEXqi

Presumably, your next post will demonstrate your clear understanding of FOV, focal length and perspective, Right?

Because you know what those are, right?

[Gazpar]

Tarkus.
The sizes are odd because its a matter of field of view of the camera.
Using a simulator, you can verify they are legit:

Earth viewed from 1.600.000km(distance from DSCOVR satellite)with 45º of FOV:


Earth viewed from 1.600.000km with 1º of FOV:

Identical, isnt it?

Earthrise from the moon at 45º FOV:


Earthrise from the moon with 1º FOV:

[onebigmonkey]

The other problem Tarkus has is choosing to take on MMC image in isolation, when in fact it was one of series taken through the TEC phase.

Here's what happens when you run all the images together:

[JayUtah]

Here's what happens when you run all the images together:

Which is so much easier to grok that scrolling quickly down the LPI atlas with your head upside down.  Thanks!  It's almost as if that's what you'd see after TEI, ascending away from the eastern edge of the far side.

[bknight]

Here's what happens when you run all the images together:

Which is so much easier to grok that scrolling quickly down the LPI atlas with your head upside down.  Thanks!  It's almost as if that's what you'd see after TEI, ascending away from the eastern edge of the far side.

Cool video makes it seem like you are in the CSM as it travels from the moon.  Great addition.

[sts60]

tarkus, just about everything you said in your opening post was wrong.  At this point, you can either:

(a) Dig in, ignore the corrections and information offered you, and stubbornly cling to your original claim.
(b) Concede your errors, reconsider your original premise, and learn something.

Which will it be?

[frenat]

Second, the comparative size of the objects in the image is a function of the focal length of the imager, and also of the ratio of distance between the Earth and Moon and the distance from each to the imager.  This is a well-known property of focal length exploited by all photographers of any appreciable training or experience.  Rather than accusing NASA of lying, you should correct your ignorance of photography.

perfect example
http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp65/frenat/slide_truck_barn.gif
The truck and barn never move, only the focal length changes.

[smartcooky]

Quite aside from Tarkus' failure to provide references, and clear lack of understanding in photography and photgraphic analysis, there is another failure on his part, a basic mistake that is made by a good many poeople and one that they don't often understand even when you try to explain it to them.

As Spock said in "The Wrath of Khan"..."His pattern indicates ...two-dimensional thinking."

He posts pictures of the moon and, while he probably realises the moon is a globe, he argues through the photos, which are a two dimesnionsl representation of a three dimensional object, as though it is flat.

[bknight]

The other problem Tarkus has is choosing to take on MMC image in isolation, when in fact it was one of series taken through the TEC phase.

Here's what happens when you run all the images together:

Do you know the time interval between images?

[Zakalwe]

Blimey...two pretty obnoxious posters "reactivate" their accounts within days of each other. Who'd have thunk it, eh? 
*Thinks* Gee, Golly, Gosh, I wonder if they could possibly be socks?? 

The second big problem with the image from Apollo, is that when it's compared with the image obtained by the probe LRO in 2009, we can see that NOT A SINGLE CRATER MATCHES THE OTHER.

This is the second time that you have posted this garbage claim. I comprehensively refuted it here:

No matches not a single crater between the two pictures. Because both are FALSE.

Wrong.



They aren't particularly hard to match. 10 minutes with Virtual Moon Atlas did the job

Can you now retract your assertion tarkus? Or do you not have the cojones to admit that you are wrong?

So, again, do you retract your assertion?

[Zakalwe]

But the worst is the relative sizes of both bodies: If we're supposed to believe that the Earth, watched from the moon, is as small as Apollo's images make it out to be, then as we move farther away from Earth, it should become smaller and smaller. THEN WHAT THE HELL IS DOING SUCH A GIGANTIC EARTH BEHIND THE MOON? Surely the guy that was asked to come up with such a clumsy animation was told that the Moon has a diameter 4 times smaller than Earth, and the genius represented this scale as if both bodies were displayed side by side.

Oh my.
Further evidence that you seem to have real problems with perspective (hmm....did you work out your error with the CSM position yet?). As an aside, I wonder which other non-native English speaker always seems to struggle with visual effects and perspective.....

Rather that spend time explaining it all to you again I refer you to this excellent educational video

[Ishkabibble]

Wow... this place is great!

I asked for facts, and I got facts.

Only, I didn't get any facts from the OP. I got them all from the regulars.

This place is great!

 

[bknight]

Blimey...two pretty obnoxious posters "reactivate" their accounts within days of each other. Who'd have thunk it, eh? 
*Thinks* Gee, Golly, Gosh, I wonder if they could possibly be socks?? 

The second big problem with the image from Apollo, is that when it's compared with the image obtained by the probe LRO in 2009, we can see that NOT A SINGLE CRATER MATCHES THE OTHER.

This is the second time that you have posted this garbage claim. I comprehensively refuted it here:

No matches not a single crater between the two pictures. Because both are FALSE.

Wrong.



They aren't particularly hard to match. 10 minutes with Virtual Moon Atlas did the job

Can you now retract your assertion tarkus? Or do you not have the cojones to admit that you are wrong?

So, again, do you retract your assertion?

Surely you jest.  He hasn't retracted any of his propositions.