Unexplained infertiltiy

[Andromeda]

I said in the states for example, assuming that Andromeda is in the other part of the world. being a man or a woman doesn't matter much. it is experiences that matter, but especially if she was a man it is more understandable  what she was saying.

What?!  What was I saying?  You have convinced yourself I have no understanding of the pain of infertility and nothing I have said backs that up.  Stop it.

It seemed to matter to you when you thought I was a man (given that you based further assumptions on it), now you know I am not it suddenly "doesn't matter much".  Again, please stop.

[LionKing]

Lionking, you made an unjustified assumption or two about someone on this forum. Do you intend to retract it or apologise for it? Or not? And by that I mean an apology without justifications and further assumptions following on.

As to your absurd justification for your comment about the states, you're really not fooling anyone.

Jason, yes there is an assumption that she was a male..I hope it didn't offend her.. also the assumption that she is from the states ..all what is intended out of it is to know what is happening there at that part of the world..
sorry Andromeda. Someone called me, or assumed I am a male many years ago and I corrected him. I didn't feel offended that he made that claim and -again-assumed you will be not...

If someone tells me  he would want to know what is happening in syria, of course I would know he is assuming I am from there, but I would not make a great deal out of it..would just correct it and give my impression he is asking about since living  in Syria's part of the world would give me more information.

[LionKing]

I said in the states for example, assuming that Andromeda is in the other part of the world. being a man or a woman doesn't matter much. it is experiences that matter, but especially if she was a man it is more understandable  what she was saying.

What?!  What was I saying?  You have convinced yourself I have no understanding of the pain of infertility and nothing I have said backs that up.  Stop it.

just not understanding that, even if there is a little hope, women would still want to pursue this hope

OK let us stop it here, and sorry for all this mess

[Jason Thompson]

Lionking, I will spell this out very simply for you. You assumed:

1: Andromeda was a man
2: Andromeda was in the US
3: That Andromeda could not understand the pain of infertility
4: That Andromeda may not know anyone who was infertile
5: That as an assumed male, Andromeda would not understand the pain of infertility.

That last one moves into frankly offensive territory. How dare you assume that a man would not undertand such pain? Andromeda may know such a person, may even be such a person, and even if she was male, she might have enough experience of other people going through such pain to have some idea of hat it is like and to sympathise.

Now, why don't you actually, properly, acknowledge these absurd and offensive assumptions and apologise properly for them rather than continuing to try and justify your comments? THat is when this conversation will actually move on, not when you just decide not to play any more because you're being called on your position again.

[Andromeda]

There's no point, Jason.  I'm bowing out because no good is coming of this at all.

[Jason Thompson]

I said in the states for example, assuming that Andromeda is in the other part of the world. being a man or a woman doesn't matter much. it is experiences that matter, but especially if she was a man it is more understandable  what she was saying.

What?!  What was I saying?  You have convinced yourself I have no understanding of the pain of infertility and nothing I have said backs that up.  Stop it.

just not understanding that, even if there is a little hope, women would still want to pursue this hope

That is understood. What you're not understanding is the difference between hope and false hope. Unjustified and unsupported medical suggestions are not real hope. Fraud 'doctors' have been making a fortune out of offering patients hope and no actual treatment for years. It is rightly not tolerated in the profession.

[Luke Pemberton]

5: That as an assumed male, Andromeda would not understand the pain of infertility.

That last one moves into frankly offensive territory. How dare you assume that a man would not undertand such pain? Andromeda may know such a person, may even be such a person, and even if she was male, she might have enough experience of other people going through such pain to have some idea of hat it is like and to sympathise.

Ditto.

[LionKing]

jasin
i did apologize..i was just explaining were i came from when i thought abt it that a man might not understand well..or even a woman if didn't experience this and i put myself as an example to prove that i don't fault her...i didn't know how my grandma feels about her crippled legs until i had a problem in my leg..so even when i assumed, wrongly perhaps, and i repeat my apology, that she doesn't or might not understand how a woman would feel or think when she doesn't have kids,  i was not intending to insult or fault...

I hope now it is clear and plz accept my apologies for wrongly assuming you don't know how a woman feel or thinks  in case if unexplained infertility..

[gillianren]

Sorry about the run-on sentence!

*Avoids making eye contact with Gillianren*

I'll forgive you . . . this time.

[glower]

You know, I'm a birth mother.  This has come up a time or two.  And I'm pretty sure my daughter's adoptive dad knows more about the pain of infertility than I do.  (Though I don't know their reasons for adopting.  I've never asked.  It's none of my business.)  To assume that a man can't know that . . . yeah.

Lionking, I don't hate you.  I don't care enough about you.  I do hate the anti-science, anti-intellectual garbage you spread and your tendency to make assumptions about what people must be like based on their disagreements with you.  You're not opposed to vaccines?  Fine.  But your tactics in arguing against anything to do with modern medicine are exactly the same as those of people opposed to vaccines.  And, yes, those tactics do result in deaths.  And even when they don't, they routinely result in needless suffering.  Stop talking and start listening.  Please.

[Luke Pemberton]

You know, I'm a birth mother.

IMHO, that's a brave thing to 'speak' about. Thanks for sharing. I'll leave it there if you don't mind, but you've gone up another peg in my estimation.