MSFN

[benparry]

Hi Everybody. i have recently been asked a question regarding the missions only staying in LEO. I pointed out to him that the MSFN collected signals from space and relayed these to the MCC but his rather jumpy reply was simply no Nasa used moonbounce to fool people on the ground. now although he has no proof of this does his claim have any merit. am i correct in saying that the MSFN couldnt be fooled by this as they collected signals from space and tracked the ships to the moon and back.

thanks again Guys

[AtomicDog]

Moonbounce couldn't simulate a mission in transit to and from the moon. Also, a ship in orbit around the moon had a noticeable Doppler track.

[AtomicDog]

Here's an excerpt from "How Apollo Flew to the Moon" that shows how orbital velocity affected communications. Simply bouncing a signal wouldn't have worked.


https://books.google.com/books?id=x-taL4N0sjIC&pg=PA157&lpg=PA157&dq=doppler+effect+on+command+module+signals&source=bl&ots=v92sRZuORV&sig=j1HZYP4VjbdrHAnpfw5O26G1EBs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiCram1gOTXAhUhzoMKHUMFB8MQ6AEIUDAN#v=onepage&q=doppler%20effect%20on%20command%20module%20signals&f=false

[benparry]

thats great thanks for that.

[onebigmonkey]

Moonbounce simply wouldn't be reliable enough to produce the claimed effect consistently, with the correct time delay, over the course of many days. It needs ideal conditions to work, and the person with whom you are having the discussion needs to explain exactly how it would work. How, for example, would a conversation supposedly being held in the continental US be bounced to the moon and received in Australia, or Madrid?

Being in LEO would also require comms stations to be changed every 10-15 minutes, not the several hours they actually were (check the difference in the transcripts between Apollo 7 and 9 compared with the lunar missions).

Being in LEO would also stop them from taking images, or broadcasting live TV, of the entire Earth - just not possible.

This kind of handwaving is usually regarded as sufficient by hoax proponents, but unfortunately they need to explain it properly, not just drop the mic and think they're done.

[benparry]

lol a bit like almost everything else then lol . thanks for that answer i'll see what he has to say about it if he comes back

[Jubril]

Hi folks. Long-term lurker here, first-time poster.

It seems to me that the 'moonbounce' claim betrays the childish misconception that the Apollo spacecraft were somehow fired straight at the moon during TLI. Even leaving aside the finer details of orbital mechanics, the average person in the street would surely understand that the spacecraft had to be aimed at the place where the moon was going to be three days after launch rather than its position at the time of TLI.

[benparry]

thats an excellent point. the moon bounce claim in my opinion is simply another desperate attempt to explain something that doesnt need to be explained.

[gwiz]

Here's a link about astronomers, professional and amateur, tracking Apollo.  They didn't point their telescopes at the Moon.
http://pages.astronomy.ua.edu/keel/space/apollo.html

[bknight]

Here's a link about astronomers, professional and amateur, tracking Apollo.  They didn't point their telescopes at the Moon.
http://pages.astronomy.ua.edu/keel/space/apollo.html

An excellent example the HB's dismiss or ignore.  I had a "discussion" with one on YTube, concerning the guys (Larry Baysinger et al) who listened in on A11 while on the Moon.  He said like that ever happened.  You can't fix stupid.

[Abaddon]

Hi folks. Long-term lurker here, first-time poster.

It seems to me that the 'moonbounce' claim betrays the childish misconception that the Apollo spacecraft were somehow fired straight at the moon during TLI. Even leaving aside the finer details of orbital mechanics, the average person in the street would surely understand that the spacecraft had to be aimed at the place where the moon was going to be three days after launch rather than its position at the time of TLI.

That one seems to go with the weird idea that the engines fired continuously all the way to the moon (and back of course). My guess is that both of these notions occur because A) The closest analog some people can imagine is terrestrial jet travel and B) Sci-fi in popular culture depicts this as being the case. (with some notable exceptions)

BTW, welcome to the forum.

[benparry]

I've actually come out of all forums that i was in on Facebook. i thing i have graduated from the school of 'Your wasting your time' with an honours degree.

it doesnt matter what you say to these people they wont change their mind.

[bknight]

Pretty much so, I dipped my toe into the YTube world for a couple of years and decided the same thing, quit beating my head against the wall and quit.

[molesworth]

Pretty much so, I dipped my toe into the YTube world for a couple of years and decided the same thing, quit beating my head against the wall and quit.

For beating your head against a wall, nothing can possibly be worse than trying to debate the denizens of "G - P"    I've tried to present rational, careful arguments on several topics, but run into nothing but idiocy, ignorance and downright abuse.

My final hoorah was daring to contradict one of their "regulars" who claimed to have sailed to Antarctica*, but who'd just posted a load of images he'd found around the internet.  My posts were deleted, and even a separate thread I tried to start on it was removed, presumably by one of the mods.  They are a special little clique, all of their own, and welcome to it as far as I'm concerned...

I believe the general opinion in more sane quarters is "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy" 

[ * for reference, I have sailed there, and the big give-away was posting a picture I recognised instantly... ]

[inconceivable]

After watching Youtubes for years it has revealed to me that moon transit communications were accompished with CSM-009b, CSM-009c, and CSM-009d.  Apollo destinations sites on the moon were previously tagged with a Luna mission and with the Ranger Spacecraft missions, with one remaining in lunar orbit.  This joint Russia/US mission know as the Cold War was to bring an end to the visitors from the Moon and  the cold vacuum of space and also to their occupying locations on Earth, the deep sea and Antarctica.  The problem was that they understood early on that any biological from Earth could only remain alert to 10 Earth radii.  All animals and humans sent into space remained unconsious passed the 10 Earth Radii.  Biological conscience is severed passed this distance.  After the payloads were remotely dropped on the ETs, with  command modules, etc., the next stage of the Cold War officially had begun with a strike back.  Most of the footage was chopped from probes, CSMs, and Russian footage and created on sound stage.   4dlfi4