Author Topic: Radiation  (Read 938661 times)

Offline Allan F

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2250 on: April 20, 2018, 01:04:07 PM »
Why don't you provide EVIDENCE for your claim that the trajectories - ALL NINE OF THEM - was the same as used for Orion?

You would not ask this question if you understood how and why the path of lunar injection is determined.  Let me see if I can get my research assistant freed up long enough to do your research for you.

Your claim - your burden of proof. If you have no proof, your claim must be dismissed as without merit or reason.
Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.

Offline Abaddon

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2251 on: April 20, 2018, 01:04:45 PM »
You people go to great lengths to distract and obfuscate.  It simply delays the inevitable.  I will make this simple.  The attached graph depicts the AE-8 Max Electron flux of the VAB.  The Apollo flight path is delineated.  The Orion EFT flight path is insignificantly different.  It was an inclination of 28.8 while Apollo 11's was 28.65.  If you can show and justify a different path than the one delineated please do so or accept this one as the defacto standard.  Let us find common ground so we can move toward a resolution that we can all agree on.    I can easily be silenced.  Show me something real.
Seriously, tim. Apollo briefly traversed the edge of the outer belt during TLI and Orion EFT orbited within the inner belt during Earth orbit. And you are pretending to claim that there is no significant difference between Orion and Apollo. In that case, my commute to the office this morning is not significantly different from Shackleton's expedition.

Back up your opinion with facts.  FActs like the actual inclination of apollo 11 upon entering the VAB as compared to the Orion EFT.  We are beyond the opinion stage and have moved into the "put up or shut phase".
You are? OK Put up or shut up. What are those figures?

YOU made the claim that Orion and Apollo followed similar orbits. Nobody else, just you. Since you made that claim then you must perforce already have those numbers. Do you have them or do you not?

Do you know or are you really just full of it?

Offline Abaddon

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2252 on: April 20, 2018, 01:09:23 PM »
Why don't you provide EVIDENCE for your claim that the trajectories - ALL NINE OF THEM - was the same as used for Orion?
You would not ask this question if you understood how and why the path of lunar injection is determined.  Let me see if I can get my research assistant freed up long enough to do your research for you.
Oh, you don't understand basic ballistics let alone orbital mechanics. Two more for the list.

Offline bknight

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2253 on: April 20, 2018, 01:09:31 PM »
If it as you would have use believe, that 8 gm/cm^3 aluminum shielding can shield 90% of proton flux and assuming in doing so no secondary radiation is created then using Braeunig's own totals of 179.67 rem for both transits would still yield 17.97 rem.  Make that work without magic.

No magic, but a bit of shifting involved, that is outward and inward with no shielding involved.  So what is the net benefit of the Apollo capsule?
It seems odd that you quote this number but refuse to accept the rest of the calculations.  Does this happen because those figures completely destroy your belief?
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan


Offline Abaddon

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2255 on: April 20, 2018, 01:23:28 PM »
Tim, your pomposity is embarrassing.  You go on about how you're going to completely school everyone, but when you're asked to do tiny amounts of work, you can't do it.  You frequently resort to claiming that everything you don't understand about Apollo is magic.  Your insistence that you are smarter than everyone and that everyone else is just stupid doesn't actually make you look smarter.  It makes you look obnoxious.  Especially because you still haven't answered how you're certain that the answer to your issues is "I have made a mistake."
Gillianren,  It is not that I cannot do the calculations.  Surely I have demonstrated and superior level of knowledge in he subject matter to all interested parties.  I see these attempts as mere distraction to prevent from engaging the elephant in the room.  They would lead down a meandering path to know where for no other reason than to prevent addressing the real topic.  They lack the intellectual integrity to address these issues because their entire beliefs system is built on a foundation of obvious lies aqnd will crumble with the slightest nudge.  I am nudging....
You are clearly not smarter than a broom. If your claims were true then ISS is fake, as was MIR, as is every satellite ever claimed. Satellite TV is a myth and NASA is in collusion with ESA, Roscosmos, ISRO, CSNA, JAXA, and so forth to achieve...what?

Do you not comprehend that NASA was reduced to renting seats on Soyuz to even get to the ISS because of cranks like you?


Offline timfinch

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2257 on: April 20, 2018, 01:26:54 PM »
Tim, your pomposity is embarrassing.  You go on about how you're going to completely school everyone, but when you're asked to do tiny amounts of work, you can't do it.  You frequently resort to claiming that everything you don't understand about Apollo is magic.  Your insistence that you are smarter than everyone and that everyone else is just stupid doesn't actually make you look smarter.  It makes you look obnoxious.  Especially because you still haven't answered how you're certain that the answer to your issues is "I have made a mistake."
Gillianren,  It is not that I cannot do the calculations.  Surely I have demonstrated and superior level of knowledge in he subject matter to all interested parties.  I see these attempts as mere distraction to prevent from engaging the elephant in the room.  They would lead down a meandering path to know where for no other reason than to prevent addressing the real topic.  They lack the intellectual integrity to address these issues because their entire beliefs system is built on a foundation of obvious lies aqnd will crumble with the slightest nudge.  I am nudging....
You are clearly not smarter than a broom. If your claims were true then ISS is fake, as was MIR, as is every satellite ever claimed. Satellite TV is a myth and NASA is in collusion with ESA, Roscosmos, ISRO, CSNA, JAXA, and so forth to achieve...what?

Do you not comprehend that NASA was reduced to renting seats on Soyuz to even get to the ISS because of cranks like you?
When I made the statement that you were mentally challenged, I was suspended.  Let's see if the moderators are fair and balanced.  "Dumb as a broom" is a much more egregious offense don't you think?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 01:29:08 PM by timfinch »

Offline timfinch

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2258 on: April 20, 2018, 01:28:29 PM »
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/JSC_OrionEFT-1_PressKit_accessible.pdf
https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apollo_18-21_Earth_Orbit_Data.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-lunar_injection

It's a presskit. Had you a point? Of course you hadn't.
The inclination is listed in the flight path data.  Do I need to extract it and reprint it in crayon for you?  Do you need help with the big words?

Offline timfinch

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2259 on: April 20, 2018, 01:32:13 PM »
If it as you would have use believe, that 8 gm/cm^3 aluminum shielding can shield 90% of proton flux and assuming in doing so no secondary radiation is created then using Braeunig's own totals of 179.67 rem for both transits would still yield 17.97 rem.  Make that work without magic.

No magic, but a bit of shifting involved, that is outward and inward with no shielding involved.  So what is the net benefit of the Apollo capsule?
It seems odd that you quote this number but refuse to accept the rest of the calculations.  Does this happen because those figures completely destroy your belief?
So what is it you expect of me?  Should I repeat the magic tick and call it quits?  Honestly, are you claiming the apollo craft was capable of shielding greater than 90% of the harmful primary and secondary radiation of the VAB.  Is that your claim?

Offline Abaddon

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2260 on: April 20, 2018, 01:37:37 PM »
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/JSC_OrionEFT-1_PressKit_accessible.pdf
https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apollo_18-21_Earth_Orbit_Data.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-lunar_injection

It's a presskit. Had you a point? Of course you hadn't.
The inclination is listed in the flight path data.  Do I need to extract it and reprint it in crayon for you?  Do you need help with the big words?
No, you need to demonstrate your claim that the Apollo trajectory was the same. And you cannot. Everyone else knows you cannot. Apollo TLI=ORION EFT, that is your claim. Prove it. While you are about it, demonstrate that a curve has an angle. Only you believe that. Furthermore, demonstrate that Orion followed a straight line, or Apollo for that matter. You cannot, because you are clueless.

Offline Abaddon

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2261 on: April 20, 2018, 01:46:51 PM »
If it as you would have use believe, that 8 gm/cm^3 aluminum shielding can shield 90% of proton flux and assuming in doing so no secondary radiation is created then using Braeunig's own totals of 179.67 rem for both transits would still yield 17.97 rem.  Make that work without magic.

No magic, but a bit of shifting involved, that is outward and inward with no shielding involved.  So what is the net benefit of the Apollo capsule?
It seems odd that you quote this number but refuse to accept the rest of the calculations.  Does this happen because those figures completely destroy your belief?
So what is it you expect of me? 
Honesty.

Should I repeat the magic tick and call it quits? 
No. Just honesty would do.
Honestly,
It is to laugh.
are you claiming the apollo craft was capable of shielding greater than 90% of the harmful primary and secondary radiation of the VAB.  Is that your claim?
No, I claim it was invisible pixies. Prove they don't exist. That is how comedically borked your position is.

Now you will likely get all "offended" because I am mocking your position. Well of course I am. What's not to mock? You have voluntarily dropped your trolleys, applied lubricant and sat on the obsidian cone. The internet does not forget. This exercise will follow you forever.

Offline timfinch

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2262 on: April 20, 2018, 01:54:43 PM »
I am placing the admins on notice.  Until Abaddon is disciplined as I frequently am, I will not respond to him.  He no longer exist in my mind or sight.

Offline timfinch

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2263 on: April 20, 2018, 01:59:47 PM »
Allan F.,  The ball is in your court.  Are you going to put it into play or is it time to throw in the towel and start wound licking?

Offline benparry

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2264 on: April 20, 2018, 02:01:23 PM »
I am placing the admins on notice.  Until Abaddon is disciplined as I frequently am, I will not respond to him.  He no longer exist in my mind or sight.

to be fair Tim you have also not answered in an adult way. thinks like shall I color in the reply and do you need help with the big words doesn't do anything for you. it shows you up quite a bit.