What becomes of old 'friends'..

[Glom]

Grows has form on being ignorant on the most basic things and failing to understand that maybe - just maybe - he should go away a learn a little more before making such audacious pronouncements.

He had the temerity to state he didn't know how transposition and docking was done and that therefore meant it was all a fake.

[Chew]

He had the temerity to state he didn't know how transposition and docking was done and that therefore meant it was all a fake.

Correction: he didn't even know transposition and docking existed before saying it was all hoaxed because at launch the LM was below the CSM and then after launch it was above the CSM.

[darren r]

Looking through the other topics on that site, it appears that Heiwa has found a home among like-minded people. They seem to believe that virtually everything, ever, was faked or hoaxed.

Honestly, what would be the point?

[smartcooky]

Looking through the other topics on that site, it appears that Heiwa has found a home among like-minded people. They seem to believe that virtually everything, ever, was faked or hoaxed.

Honestly, what would be the point?

Well, I guess if you believe "The Matrix" is real, then everything really is fake, isn't it, and we spend our entire lives impersonating a battery!

[Peter B]

Here we find our old pal Heiwa surrounded by less intellectually demanding bedfellows failing to comprehend how a Space Shuttle can lift off, or how the fuel tanks are attached:

http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=935&start=570

He also fails to work out which shuttle mission it is (took me 5 minutes to get through the French site from which his image is sourced - the final shuttle mission is the answer), the mystery payload for which was well documented.

There are some, erm, 'interesting' viewpoints to be had on that sub-forum and a couple of Apollo threads, as well as on the rest of the site. Those on blood pressure medication had best avoid.

Good heavens! I have just read through some of the stuff on that link. The level of ignorance is unbelievable.

Does this guy really believe that one bolt at the nose is all that holds the fuel tank and the orbiter together? Can he not see the attachment points at the base of the fuel tank.

I've heard of suspension of disbelief, but this is ridiculous!!

There's something a little strange about making a claim (the one bolt) when the very picture used to substantiate the claim actually contradicts it. It's sort of like the people who use a fake photo to try to prove something is real. *

It's also all been added to the "space travel is impossible" page on his website.

* Several years ago someone forwarded a photo to an email list of a Los Angeles freeway with ten lanes each way passing through a picturesque valley, all 20 lanes packed with cars, a thick cloud of smog above. The person posting the photo used it as the basis for making a comment about how bad LA traffic was. The problem was that the photo was clearly a Photoshop invention - identical cars were in multiple lanes, buildings didn't cast shadows while the cars did, and distant objects were too dark. Despite this the poster defended the photo saying it was indicative of the reality of LA traffic, to which my response was that a real photo would do just fine. What was oddest of all was that the email list in question was one for skeptics, and the person who defended the photo was a member of the Australian Skeptics.

ETA: Here's a link to the picture - http://www.chasingcleanair.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/07/05/los_angeles_traffic_july_2008_2.jpg

[gillianren]

I can't even begin to count the ways that it looks fake to me, some of which are because I know the area so well.

[nomuse]

And Heiwa's last post -- he STILL doesn't understand how a rocket works.  Yes, dear; they have to "flop around" in order to slow down.  Slept through the 1940's, eh?

[Peter B]

I can't even begin to count the ways that it looks fake to me, some of which are because I know the area so well.

I was astonished that a skeptic would consider it acceptable to use something fake to prove something was real. I mean, it'd be exactly like using a faked picture of an Apollo mission to help prove that Apollo was real.

[Peter B]

And Heiwa's last post -- he STILL doesn't understand how a rocket works.  Yes, dear; they have to "flop around" in order to slow down.  Slept through the 1940's, eh?

To be fair, he talks about *flopping* around in the context of *turning* around. But yes, an almost complete lack of understanding that direction of travel and direction of thrust are completely unrelated. He must have picked up his understanding of rockets from watching rockets in movies (where the engines are always firing and the rocket always travels in the direction it's pointing).

[gillianren]

I was astonished that a skeptic would consider it acceptable to use something fake to prove something was real. I mean, it'd be exactly like using a faked picture of an Apollo mission to help prove that Apollo was real.

Actually, that's one of the things that looks fake to me.  The traffic is so bad in both directions.  That is seldom true, even in LA.  Traffic in LA is bad (though the air quality is a heck of a lot better than it was when I was a kid), but it isn't that bad, especially in a location like that one.  What's more, public transit there is improving, meaning traffic is, too.

[onebigmonkey]

And Heiwa's last post -- he STILL doesn't understand how a rocket works.  Yes, dear; they have to "flop around" in order to slow down.  Slept through the 1940's, eh?

To be fair, he talks about *flopping* around in the context of *turning* around. But yes, an almost complete lack of understanding that direction of travel and direction of thrust are completely unrelated. He must have picked up his understanding of rockets from watching rockets in movies (where the engines are always firing and the rocket always travels in the direction it's pointing).

To be completely fair, I actually think he's talking about the crew positions.

To be completely unfair, he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about, and a 3 second google will show numerous videos of the crew (in a bizarre logical twist) actually facing their instrumentation panels and facing the direction of travel. Are the 'g', 'o', 'l' and 'e' keys completely missing from the keyboards of these people?

[DataCable]

The problem was that the photo was clearly a Photoshop invention - identical cars were in multiple lanes, buildings didn't cast shadows while the cars did, and distant objects were too dark.

The one that gets me is the cars on the right side in the shadow of the overpass casting their own darker shadows.

[armillary]

I considered setting up an account on CF and inserting some sorely-needed facts, but I don't feel argumentative enough. 'sides, any bets on how long the account would last?

[onebigmonkey]

And Heiwa's last post -- he STILL doesn't understand how a rocket works.  Yes, dear; they have to "flop around" in order to slow down.  Slept through the 1940's, eh?

To be fair, he talks about *flopping* around in the context of *turning* around. But yes, an almost complete lack of understanding that direction of travel and direction of thrust are completely unrelated. He must have picked up his understanding of rockets from watching rockets in movies (where the engines are always firing and the rocket always travels in the direction it's pointing).

To be completely fair, I actually think he's talking about the crew positions.

To be completely unfair, he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about, and a 3 second google will show numerous videos of the crew (in a bizarre logical twist) actually facing their instrumentation panels and facing the direction of travel. Are the 'g', 'o', 'l' and 'e' keys completely missing from the keyboards of these people?

I posted my reply to this before I started work this morning. Once I started work I had a chance to google the answer properly

I now get what he, and gillianren and Peter B all mean, so my comment above isn't what was meant at all.

While there are cockpit re-entry videos, I doubt they would reveal what he is hoping to reveal.

This page told me what I needed to know:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/space-shuttle7.htm

[ineluki]

He must have picked up his understanding of rockets from watching rockets in movies

I think anyone who ever played Space Wars has a better understanding of rocketry than him...