What becomes of old 'friends'..

[Noldi400]

I honestly think Hunchy has gone around the bend. I just saw his YT vid from May in which he puts forth the theory that (a) the photos and videos/films from Apollo were all done by actors hired by the CIA on a fake moon set, and (b) the real astronauts were drugged and somehow "brainwashed" to believe that they had made the trip.

That's just... well, what can you say?  If he really believes this, his somewhat-skewed reality has devolved into outright delusion.

^{Is that what they mean by French-fried?}

[JayUtah]

...so they deliberately made the designs unworkable and planted hundreds of 'clues' to this effect that he is the first to discover.

That's a pretty perfect delusion.  The original engineers -- known giants of their field -- left clues that have gone unnoticed by generations of professional engineers, in designs that have been reused and duplicated for decades after.  And the only person in the world who notices them is a guy claiming a three-year degree.  And what does he do?  Makes anonymous YouTube videos.  Yeah, that has "delusion of grandeur" written all over it.

Jay, what do you know about Institut Supérieur de l'Aéronautique et de l'Espace?

It exists.  It's an accredited three-year program, but you can study practically any science topic there, to any depth.  You could apparently major in radar knobs, for all the world knows.  It's suspicious that in his video he says one is awarded a degree just for being accepted there; no exams required.  I wonder what he means by that.

The Institut is a new thing; he claims a diploma from the earlier Ecole, which as of 2007 is now part of this larger institute at Toulouse.  This makes it hard to assess the strength of the program based on comparative rankings.  But according to the 2012 international rankings, the Institut ranks in the low 4,000s.  By comparison Carnegie-Mellon is ranked #22, Purdue is #20.  One of my alma maters U. of Michigan is ranked #8 (Go Blue!), and the university I taught at is ranked #79.  Yes, I'm sure you can get a job at Dassault with one of their degrees, but you might be installing radar knobs.  His was a three-year program.  I went to school for more than a decade.  Do the math.

I don't think I've ever seen a bad candidate from MIT.

Nope.  I sent my brightest student there, where he promptly earned a PhD and is now a research fellow at Google.  He can't ski worth a darn, but that's not part of the curriculum in Cambridge.

[ka9q]

That's a pretty perfect delusion.  The original engineers -- known giants of their field -- left clues that have gone unnoticed by generations of professional engineers, in designs that have been reused and duplicated for decades after.

It sure is. And his delusion is unpenetrated by specific examples of those designs being used in systems that have nothing to do with NASA or space exploration, like FM broadcast transmitters.

You could apparently major in radar knobs, for all the world knows.  It's suspicious that in his video he says one is awarded a degree just for being accepted there; no exams required.  I wonder what he means by that.

I noticed that too. I don't know of any credible university that doesn't have exams. Hard exams.

By comparison Carnegie-Mellon is ranked #22, Purdue is #20.  One of my alma maters U. of Michigan is ranked #8 (Go Blue!), and the university I taught at is ranked #79.

One of my standard speeches to high school students who want to become engineers is to not sweat the college selection process too much. Or let your parents sweat it too much. Your life won't end before it starts if you don't get accepted at MIT or Caltech. I didn't. There are literally dozens of excellent EE schools in the US, any one of which can give you a perfectly good education and your professional start. Because that's all it is, a start; the longer you're in industry, the less it matters where you went to school. What matters more is that you continue to learn.

I also say that grades and transcripts and school names were never that important to me as an interviewer. You do need to pass and get a degree, yes, but beyond that I look more at other things: work-study experience, side projects, contributions to open-source software, technically related hobbies, small businesses, science fair projects, stuff like that. The common theme is individual drive and initiative.

[gillianren]

Now, I did inform a friend that he'd be crazy to go to my alma mater if he had any interest in being an engineer, simply because (to my knowledge) there's only one professor there capable of teaching higher mathematics and physics.  And I had him for history and literature!  However, in off times, he discussed his time at Bell Labs long ago.

[JayUtah]

I noticed that too. I don't know of any credible university that doesn't have exams. Hard exams.

Especially in an engineering curriculum.  Two-hour exams in each subject where it's just your brain pitted against thick piles of arcane knowledge about the physical world.  I would have to check, but I don't think a three-year program would qualify you to sit for the PE exams in any of the United Sates.  "Diploma upon entry" screams diploma-mill, and this jives with their absurdly low international ranking.  But I don't see anything in their literature that confirms this is what they do.  And in all other respects they seem legitimate.  I'm guessing Hunchback misspoke.

One of my standard speeches to high school students who want to become engineers is to not sweat the college selection process too much. Or let your parents sweat it too much.

Indeed.  The ranking I posted is simply the only measurement I could find of the school's competency, absent any meaningful review.

More toward your point, I tell kids to get their generals done at whatever accredited school is cheapest for them to attend.  Everyone getting a 4-year baccalaureate has to take so many of the same classes regardless of eventual major, and they're largely the same no matter where you go, and largely as disinteresting to students.  Hence if you're going to be a mechanical engineer, get "Western Civilization" and "Nutritional Life Skills" out of the way at Groener State Teacher's College, because you won't enjoy them any more at $4,000 per credit hour at your Ivy League dream school.

Because that's all it is, a start; the longer you're in industry, the less it matters where you went to school. What matters more is that you continue to learn.

I also say that grades and transcripts and school names were never that important to me as an interviewer.

Indeed, when evaluating a résumé I verify that the candidate has a suitable degree from a school that's not obviously bogus, and then I skip right to the most recent job experience.  If a candidate presents a transcript I look at it, but I don't care about grades or GPA so much.  What I look at depends largely on what I'm hiring for.

[gillianren]

All of which is the problem with my alma mater.  No requirements and no grades.  You have to do a lot of in-depth study in the person's transcript to know what you're getting.  That being said, I've heard there's a professor in the computer sciences at MIT who prefers getting our graduates, because the one thing you can be reasonably sure of is that we've learned how to think.  Not just follow orders.

[Count Zero]

That reminds me, Gillian; I miss your avater from the old board (and thanks for explaining the gag).

P.S.  I really would like to know if the above was the proper use of a semicolon.  Thanks.

[gillianren]

Yes, but you spelled "avatar" wrong.  And if someone can help me set it up here, I'll transfer it over.  As I think I've said before, I really don't know a lot about computers.

[Noldi400]

Avater (n.) A person or thing which avets.

[RedneckR0nin]

And lest we forget, our old fiend Hagbard::

Why would it be so hard to fly a spacecraft to the moon? The pro-hoax films talk about the radiation riak, but the radiation wasn't as bad as all that, according to Clavius. The rockets were desinged over a period of years by some of the greatest engineers they could find. Why couldn't they do it?


This is going to be difficult to explain. The world is not what we think it is and the conspiracy works on many levels. What if I were to tell you that there is a secret global government and that all national governments are simply public-relation departments of that secret global government? Sounds crazy? Well, bear with me. The Cold War, like nearly all wars, was a manipulated fraud. Of course we on the ground, as well as people far higher up in “power” didn’t know this. As far as we were concerned there were two sides: the West and the Communist block, but at a higher level the two sides were run by the same people; and that situation is the same today. During the Cold War it became necessary as part of the Space Race to make it look like man had gone to the moon for the first time. But the charade had to be credible to the public, which meant that the people had to be seen to go there using the technology of the time. There’s another historical analogy: when Columbus “discovered” America. The truth is, the Elite Secret Society Mystery Schools knew very well that the New World existed, they had for thousands of years. The ruling Royal lines of the Vikings, Egyptians, Romans, Phoenicians, Welsh and Irish had already sent secret expeditions over the Atlantic and travel between the two continents was a regular thing. But it became necessary for political and social reasons for the common people to be “briefed in”. So they sent Columbus, an Elite Mystery School member, over the Atlantic to pretend to accidentally trip over America! So it is with the moon. In the 60’s it became necessary in the “Great Work” for the common people to see astronauts going to the moon. In fact people were going to the moon long before that! And they still do, traveling in far more sophisticated craft than the primitive chemical rockets we see rising up over Cape Canaveral.

You see this is why the Russians never blew the whistle. The Space Race was a feint, unreal, epiphenomenal. It was an illusion engineered by government psychologists and political strategists. There’s a lower level reason too which was probably the one given the junior officials and spies: For the Space Race to be credible in the public eye it had to be close. This is the case in all races. If you’re watching a horse race and the two front runners are neck-and-neck approaching the line isn’t it exciting!? Especially if you’ve put a bet on one of them! A race where the front runner is ten lengths ahead is far less so. In the analogy of the story of the Tortoise and the Hare a race that is too one-sided causes the viewers and participants to lose interest. Up until the moon landings the Russians were winning hands down; achieving nearly all the designated firsts of space travel. If that situation had continued the public in both the West and the Soviet Union would have lost interest, maybe beginning to ask if the huge cost of the space programmes were worth it. The moon landing project allowed the Americans to catch up, giving them back their national pride and reigniting interest in the Space Race in all humanity, ultimately benefiting both countries.

Hmmm... yep, I think he covered all the issues.

Ohhh Jesus have mercy!

[Noldi400]

An HB on another board (CNN) asked why so many 'Apollo Believers' come out of the woodwork when someone posts a comment doubting the moon landings.

He was told:
"Well, when there's a naked man standing in the middle of the highway shaking his penis at passing traffic, it's only natural for people to stop to point and laugh."

[AtomicDog]

When someone posts "look at me! I'm a dumbass!" on a message board, they shouldn't be surprised when people reply,  "Yeah, you are a dumbass, aren't you?"

[gillianren]

Well, and there are just so many people who aren't stupid enough to be hoax believers.  You wouldn't know an Apollo buff from just another poster until you mention Apollo most of the time.

[Not Myself]

And lest we forget, our old fiend Hagbard::

Why would it be so hard to fly a spacecraft to the moon? The pro-hoax films talk about the radiation riak, but the radiation wasn't as bad as all that, according to Clavius. The rockets were desinged over a period of years by some of the greatest engineers they could find. Why couldn't they do it?


This is going to be difficult to explain. The world is not what we think it is and the conspiracy works on many levels. What if I were to tell you that there is a secret global government and that all national governments are simply public-relation departments of that secret global government? Sounds crazy? Well, bear with me. The Cold War, like nearly all wars, was a manipulated fraud. Of course we on the ground, as well as people far higher up in “power” didn’t know this. As far as we were concerned there were two sides: the West and the Communist block, but at a higher level the two sides were run by the same people; and that situation is the same today. During the Cold War it became necessary as part of the Space Race to make it look like man had gone to the moon for the first time. But the charade had to be credible to the public, which meant that the people had to be seen to go there using the technology of the time. There’s another historical analogy: when Columbus “discovered” America. The truth is, the Elite Secret Society Mystery Schools knew very well that the New World existed, they had for thousands of years. The ruling Royal lines of the Vikings, Egyptians, Romans, Phoenicians, Welsh and Irish had already sent secret expeditions over the Atlantic and travel between the two continents was a regular thing. But it became necessary for political and social reasons for the common people to be “briefed in”. So they sent Columbus, an Elite Mystery School member, over the Atlantic to pretend to accidentally trip over America! So it is with the moon. In the 60’s it became necessary in the “Great Work” for the common people to see astronauts going to the moon. In fact people were going to the moon long before that! And they still do, traveling in far more sophisticated craft than the primitive chemical rockets we see rising up over Cape Canaveral.

You see this is why the Russians never blew the whistle. The Space Race was a feint, unreal, epiphenomenal. It was an illusion engineered by government psychologists and political strategists. There’s a lower level reason too which was probably the one given the junior officials and spies: For the Space Race to be credible in the public eye it had to be close. This is the case in all races. If you’re watching a horse race and the two front runners are neck-and-neck approaching the line isn’t it exciting!? Especially if you’ve put a bet on one of them! A race where the front runner is ten lengths ahead is far less so. In the analogy of the story of the Tortoise and the Hare a race that is too one-sided causes the viewers and participants to lose interest. Up until the moon landings the Russians were winning hands down; achieving nearly all the designated firsts of space travel. If that situation had continued the public in both the West and the Soviet Union would have lost interest, maybe beginning to ask if the huge cost of the space programmes were worth it. The moon landing project allowed the Americans to catch up, giving them back their national pride and reigniting interest in the Space Race in all humanity, ultimately benefiting both countries.

Hmmm... yep, I think he covered all the issues.

Here's an account from someone who is clearly in the know, as the account includes all kinds of specific details.  Unlike the vague account above.

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/fire1.htm

[Noldi400]

Well, how can you dispute 'One Who Knows'? If he knows, he knows, right? Actually, the guy should have fleshed it out a bit and put it out as science fiction - it's not a bad yarn, in spots. (I read the first two pages hen skimmed some of the rest.)