Hoax? - Flag moves without being Touched

[Mag40]

Can you sort out quotes on that last post

[najak]

Can you sort out quotes on that last post

ooops, done.

[Mag40]

Note - what's more important than words from Jay, are direct NASA statements.  For meaning, we need some NASA direct quotes, or even some quotes tied to larger institutions that value their integrity, also helps.  Got any direct quotes from a larger institution? (e.g. NASA)

Not interested. It's a Gish gallup that anyone with google-fu could resolve. Besides.... Jay Windley is a renowned expert on Apollo amongst other things.

If you look at the before/after photos, which are spaced in time very far apart... you'll see the removal of equipment that was right next to it... do we have the footage of this equipment being moved -- as it would be a very likely time for the flag to be "touched".

Not my problem. Go fetch.

What is your theory for how the flag pole turned 180 deg?  And then how would it then COME BACK ON SCREEN 4x total?  You have to explain 4 separate appearances of the flag.

You've had this explained to you already. Cabin depressurisation. I really could not care less what maths you think you have performed to suggest that isn't the case. In a vacuum, any force will cause motion.

Well if there were atmosphere, this explains the motion more than anything?  (it creates a wind burst which propagates EASILY, vs. a ground reverb)

Begging the question. I'm seeing a "wind burst" but not in the way you think.

But I'm not seeing ANY flag motion at the time the PLSS is tossed, are you?

Are you blind? It happens the split second the second PLSS is tossed.

On this NASA footage link here, the flag waving starts at 13:50 and is done 15 seconds later.

Depressurisation.

The PLSS isn't thrown for another One Minute!  And the flag has already long been offscreen.

You make that sound significant. My retort is so what?

Please lay out your theory here, and why you are trying to associate this tossed PLSS with ANY flag motion at all?

That YouTube link of yours.... 16:24 second PLSS lands and immediately the flag flutters. Where is your logic? Ground vibration. It's a rock hard surface it only needs a small vibration. Low gravity, less friction. Obviously same inertia but if that moves the pole just a little, why not the flag?

The other alternative is that the split second the second PLSS impacted something else moved it. Again, where is your logic?

[najak]

Please lay out your theory here, and why you are trying to associate this tossed PLSS with ANY flag motion at all?

That YouTube link of yours.... 16:24 second PLSS lands and immediately the flag flutters. Where is your logic? Ground vibration. It's a rock hard surface it only needs a small vibration. Low gravity, less friction. Obviously same inertia but if that moves the pole just a little, why not the flag?

So your flag flutter is just a few pixels that appear to be the end of the horizontal pole for a split-second.  I see it now (pictured below).

I think this could be a possible tiny-jolt to the pole.  This seems feasible.  But a jolt of this nature would not then cause a 180 degree turn away, which seems to be your thesis.

You've established that "the exhaust didn't move the pole" but think it was this PLSS thrown, somehow causing significant rotational acceleration of the vertical pole.  Yes?

If so - that's fine with me.  It doesn't address my main contention.  For now, I'll accept this thesis.   The PLSS landed, and somehow caused the flag to rotate 180 deg.   

THE MAIN CONTENTION REMAINS:

So then how do you propose the Exhaust PULLED the flag TOWARDS IT?  (4X) -- all prior to the PLSS landing.

This is the part that remains FULLY UNREFUTED.

[Mag40]

So your flag flutter is just a few pixels that appear to be the end of the horizontal pole for a split-second.  I see it now (pictured below).

It occurs at that exact point.

I think this could be a possible tiny-jolt to the pole.  This seems feasible.  But a jolt of this nature would not then cause a 180 degree turn away, which seems to be your thesis.

I asked you to prove this 180 degree thing. I have been through the record and the various camera views are very different and it's difficult to determine what level of movement occurred. The depressurisation caused some changes, so how do you confirm it as 180 degrees (even if previous to this process it was)?

You've established that "the exhaust didn't move the pole" but think it was this PLSS thrown, somehow causing significant rotational acceleration of the vertical pole.  Yes?

It fits the visible evidence and is most certainly not impossible on a rock hard surface and an indeterminable stablity of the pole support.

THE MAIN CONTENTION REMAINS:

So then how do you propose the Exhaust PULLED the flag TOWARDS IT?  (4X) -- all prior to the PLSS landing.

This is the part that remains FULLY UNREFUTED.

Where is your logic? All it needs to do is send it away gently and pendulum action rocks it back. How is that not perfectly explained by what is happening?