Hoax? - Sand Falls too Fast.

[najak]

Here are a few links that cover the topic if "Sand falling too fast" when the astronauts jump or walk.  The behavior of the sand seems to indicate that the astronaut is being hoisted by a cable to slow his descent, while the sand falls at natural earth gravity.

Footage   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59stz-Qe7Lw
Volley ball comparison:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLjPKjppy_0
FRAME ANALYSIS - PROOF.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgd6fxuEDl0

I am unaware of how PNA's explain this behavior.   I checked my main "Debunking" source and searched for "Sand" and "Gravity", but neither topic was mentioned in the TOC.

Please enlighten me.

[BertieSlack]

Please enlighten me.

The dust didn't get as high off the ground as the astronaut?

[najak]

@BertieSlack, wrote:
"The dust didn't get as high off the ground as the astronaut?"

I appreciate your kind answer, but I'd like to keep this thread from meandering.  Serious answers only.  If you watch the 3rd link, it does a great job of frame capture to show that the sand rises right along with the bottom of his foot, or is kicked upwards from the tops of his feet.  Yet it's falls more than double the speed of the astronauts, indicating the truth of MLH -- these astronauts are being hoisted by a thin cable to help simulate lunar gravity, while the sand is only influenced by the earth's gravity.

Here's the 3rd link again:  https://youtu.be/cgd6fxuEDl0?t=40

[Obviousman]

I don't respond to clickbait. YOU are making the extraordinary claim; YOU prove that the motion is incorrect. Explain what is happening, why it must be wrong, and how the only alternative must be wires.

All you have done is basically say: it's wrong with no supporting evidence.

This isn't our first rodeo, sunshine.

[najak]

I don't respond to clickbait. YOU are making the extraordinary claim; YOU prove that the motion is incorrect. Explain what is happening, why it must be wrong, and how the only alternative must be wires.  All you have done is basically say: it's wrong with no supporting evidence.

The supporting evidence is shown best in the 3rd link.  Stop frames show the sand initially rising the same speed as the foot (some cases, the sand is on TOP of the foot, so has to rise with the foot, while other sand is tightly below the foot, so nearly the same speed as the foot).

Yet the sand falls more than 2X as fast.   The video shows the evidence.  How do you explain this sand falling so quickly, while the astronaut does not?

The 3rd link mostly stands alone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgd6fxuEDl0&t=40s

[BertieSlack]

How do you explain this sand falling so quickly

Are you a flat earther? Flerfers can't think in three dimensions either.
BTW - if the astronaut was on a wire, how come he take exactly the same time to go up as he does to come down?

[Mag40]

I knew these would come in handy. Here is an animated gif of the famous jump salute.


Obviously there is a nice little parabolic arc of dust between John Young's boots. He goes up and so does the parabolic arc. Same time, same height. If he's on wires, so is the dust.

This one is a brilliant debunk of this dopey claim. The footage where Gene Cernan does his hippity-hoppity routine closes this case in one tiny segment.

[najak]

If the astronaut was on a wire, how come he take exactly the same time to go up as he does to come down?

Again, it seems I'm dealing with people here who do not understand basic simple high school physics. 

If the astronaut and fake-suit weigh 200 lbs combined, and the wire is applying a constant 100 lbs upward force... then his jump trajectory will still follow a near-perfect parabola, with the launch speed being the same as the landing speed.   Do I really need to make a physics-proof for you, for you to understand this?  This is basic high school physics concept.   Please learn this math/physics, before commenting on physics topics.

@Allen F - you promised me "smart scientific minds" here.  Please summon them, ASAP.

I suspect the smartest minds are staying out of this, because it's a losing battle for them.  Apollo is "breaking physics" here, which is impossible.

[BertieSlack]

If the astronaut and fake-suit weigh 200 lbs combined, and the wire is applying a constant 100 lbs upward force...

Think about what you just wrote, and then deal with what Mag40 just showed you.

[najak]

This one is a brilliant debunk of this dopey claim. The footage where Gene Cernan does his hippity-hoppity routine closes this case in one tiny segment....

Thanks for the attempt at debunking.  This gave me some homework to do.  I consider your "hippity hoppity" rebuttal as a failure.

Today I obtained the NASA source video for this clip, as well as the Navy salute, and captured all frames at native resolution, without modification.

1. Navy Salute - appears to be damning for the PNA's.
2. The Hippity Hoppity attempted rebuttal has a major flaw.

I have placed all of my work on OneDrive, summarized in a google doc, with links to folders of the frame captures, as well as a KRITA project that overlays all frames as layers, and an MP4 for each that shows the sequence.  I used VLC to export NASA's mpg frames to images.

Check it out and let me know what you think:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aos6_EqxlNfpLUGoSSemppmw_lUjl0hiby99szCKYi4/edit?usp=sharing

Spoiler - for the Hippity Hoppity attempted rebuttal, I pasted my conclusions here for your convenience:

#1 - This dot stays nearly stationary and the same size for 10 frames! (1/3rd second)
If it was incoming sand, it would be moving along the ground.

#2 - There is no sign of any dust coming in from above.  It’s fully invisible, then this dot just magically appears, and stays nearly stationary for 10 frames, and PNA’s call it dust.

#3 - Let’s imagine that this is dust (magical).   As he’s hopping along, each time he has to kick his feet forward as part of the hopping motion.  This kicking motion would cause some dust to have an added upward boost.   But since this dust is also INVISIBLE until it hits the ground many frames later – we are not able to tell by what trajectory it arrived at its stationary destination.

[najak]

Think about what you just wrote, and then deal with what Mag40 just showed you.

Done, and thank you for the kind tone of your response.   I've thought about it and reviewed it on paper.   My belief is that if a 200 lb man is lifted upwards by 100 lbs of force, this will enable him to jump higher more easily... and that once he lifts off the ground, he'll follow a slower parabola than without the weight.    Since this 200 lb man only has a net downward force of 100 lbs, this simulates "half-gravity" which slows things down to about 70%.

Lunar gravity is then simulated as a combination of "partial lifting force" and reducing the playback speed by about 45%.  (instead of 60%).

Without any upward lift at all, the film replay would need to be reduced by 60%.

MLH theory is that it was a combination of the two... so that they didn't need to apply such dramatic upward forces to achieve the desired result.

[BertieSlack]

My belief is that if a 200 lb man is lifted..........

Your ignorance is really showing. The suit and backpack had a mass of 200lbs. You're basically saying John Young had a mass of zero.

[najak]

My belief is that if a 200 lb man is lifted..........

Your ignorance is really showing. The suit and backpack had a mass of 200lbs. You're basically saying John Young had a mass of zero.

Read it again - I said "Fake suit" - In my world, he's not lugging around this 180 lb suit.   So I was just estimating 30 lbs to keep the # simple, since the astronauts were around 170 lbs (many of them).

So want to apologize?    I could say "your bad reading skills are showing" but I won't.

[BertieSlack]

So want to apologize?

You'll really want to apologise when you see the full TV sequence at the flag. It's quite clear the astronauts are in a low-gravity vacuum environment as they move around.

[najak]

You'll really want to apologise when you see the full TV sequence at the flag. It's quite clear the astronauts are in a low-gravity vacuum environment as they move around.

You make a lot of allusions... as though you are sitting on wisdom -- but never say anything of substance.  If you think something will impact me - why didn't you shared the link so I could see it?

Please put more substance into your responses, so that we can know what magic wisdom resides in your superior brain.