Author Topic: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots  (Read 602545 times)

Offline gillianren

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2012, 02:32:49 PM »
Well, Jim Garrison's deeds actually include convincing a bunch of on-the-fence jurors that it wasn't a conspiracy.  You may be surprised to learn that, but it's true.  Oh, that's not what Garrison or Oliver Stone will tell you, but at least one juror said that he'd been leaning toward conspiracy before the Garrison trial, but now that Garrison was through with his case, he knew the whole thing was baloney.  Whereas Vincent Bugliosi had no mob ties and successfully prosecuted the most famous conspiracy of the twentieth century.

Facial recognition software doesn't find your matches "identical."  In fact, it doesn't find them.  And the arrest paperwork is for three other men.  If you're not going to read the Warren report, can you try this website?  http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
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Offline profmunkin

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2012, 04:09:08 PM »
http://www.jfklancer.com/Garrison2.html
Playboy interview of Jim Garrison

Honest men, doing the right thing, why do they even bother to try.

Mark Lane managed the New York City area's campaign for JFK's 1960 presidential bid, started out trying to determine for himself the facts concerning JFK assassination, along the way he was asked by Oswald's mother to represent Oswald before the Warren Commission, he agreed only on the provision that if he found Oswald to be guilty he would actively pursue his guilt.
The Warren Commission refused to allow Lane or anyone to represent Oswald.
The hearings were closed to the media and public, hence secret.
What lawyer could not build a case if they controlled all of the evidence.

Offline ka9q

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2012, 04:28:33 PM »
Of course you prefer Jim Garrison's words -- because he believed there was a conspiracy, and you prefer to believe that there was a conspiracy.

Jim Garrison was a nutcase who severely abused the powers of his office and nearly ruined some innocent people.

As for the rest, I have only one word: BULLSHIT.

Once again, please read those references so you can actually know what you're talking about. It's obvious you've been reading nothing but conspiracy literature that ought to be filed in the fiction section of the library.


Offline Echnaton

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #48 on: April 15, 2012, 04:36:14 PM »
Echnaton without going into the autopsy evidence, the evidence in support of the fatal head shot coming from the front is overwhelming.

From what I can see, if the JFK head shot had come from the grassy knoll or any where near there, the bullet would have hit Jackie or struck the car behind JFK.  Since neither of these happened, we can rule out your interpretation of a front shot.  Or do you can to be more specific about where the shooter was and tell us why you have this knowledge while the professional investigators have all missed this "overwhelming" conclusion.
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Offline Chew

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #49 on: April 15, 2012, 04:38:50 PM »
Well, Jim Garrison's deeds actually include convincing a bunch of on-the-fence jurors that it wasn't a conspiracy.

A not guilty verdict was returned in, iirc, 45 minutes. 15 minutes of that was the jury using the bathroom before coming back to announce their verdict.

Offline Echnaton

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #50 on: April 15, 2012, 04:42:50 PM »
http://www.jfklancer.com/Garrison2.html
Playboy interview of Jim Garrison

Honest men, doing the right thing, why do they even bother to try.

Mark Lane managed the New York City area's campaign for JFK's 1960 presidential bid, started out trying to determine for himself the facts concerning JFK assassination, along the way he was asked by Oswald's mother to represent Oswald before the Warren Commission, he agreed only on the provision that if he found Oswald to be guilty he would actively pursue his guilt.
The Warren Commission refused to allow Lane or anyone to represent Oswald.
The hearings were closed to the media and public, hence secret.
What lawyer could not build a case if they controlled all of the evidence.

Oswald was dead so there was no one to represent in front of the Warren Commission.  There was no trial so there was no case to build and no need to provide evidence to a lawyer who had nothing to contribute to the investigation. 

Perhaps you could clarify your meaning.
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline gillianren

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #51 on: April 15, 2012, 04:50:49 PM »
A not guilty verdict was returned in, iirc, 45 minutes. 15 minutes of that was the jury using the bathroom before coming back to announce their verdict.

Oh, yeah.  No, an objective look at what happened at the Garrison trial is actually extremely embarrassing for the conspiracy side of things.  Garrison was so gullible that someone actually once made up a person of interest only to have Garrison announce the guy--who, again, was fictional--as a suspect at a press conference.
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Offline ka9q

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #52 on: April 15, 2012, 05:11:01 PM »
The complete transcripts of the Warren Commission hearings (i.e., the testimony) were published right along with the report; they ran to many volumes (over 20, as I recall). All have long been available for free on the Internet.

Sure doesn't sound like "secret" to me.



Offline ka9q

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #53 on: April 15, 2012, 05:30:32 PM »
Oswald was dead so there was no one to represent in front of the Warren Commission.  There was no trial so there was no case to build and no need to provide evidence to a lawyer who had nothing to contribute to the investigation. 
That's right. There's simply no provision in our system of justice for a posthumous trial. In our adversarial system, inherited from England, each side presents its best case. Our Constitution provides strong guarantees to a defendant in a criminal trial the right to competent legal counsel of his choice who maintains his confidence and works for his interests; to prepare his case with counsel in private; to confront and question the witnesses against him; to compel evidence and witnesses who can testify in his favor; to testify himself in court in his own defense if he chooses; or to remain silent and not have that silence held against him.

None of these things are possible when the defendant is dead. Oswald did not choose Mark Lane as his counsel. Oswald was not able to confer with Lane in private. Oswald could not provide Lane with a list of friendly witnesses or tell him where to find helpful evidence. Oswald could not help Lane challenge the testimony of the witnesses against him. And of course Oswald could not testify in court in his own defense had he wanted to. So a trial of a dead Oswald in our adversarial system would hardly be fair, now would it?

That's why we don't have posthumous trials, and that's why a commission of inquiry was appointed instead. Although the Warren Commission had subpoena power (granted to them by an act of Congress, subject to the usual Fifth Amendment protections against self-incrimination) they had no power to convict anybody. They were not a court. Their job was to investigate the facts of the assassination as best they could and to present their findings to the President and to the world. They weren't perfect, but I think they did an outstanding job given finite resources and especially the limited time available to them.

The only failing of the Warren Commission as I see it is that they were sometimes too timid in coming to certain conclusions that seemed obvious. But given the gravity of the subject they were investigating, it was probably best to stay on the conservative side and not arrive at a finding unless the evidence for it was absolutely overwhelming.

Of course, they did find -- because the evidence was absolutely overwhelming -- that JFK was killed by Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone. That conclusion has never been seriously challenged. (Note emphasis on the word seriously.)




Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #54 on: April 15, 2012, 09:30:18 PM »
Profunkin, you have some questions waiting for you in the Dan Goldin Comment thread. Please answer them.
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Offline profmunkin

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #55 on: April 15, 2012, 10:28:06 PM »
Ka9q correction Warren Commission, was closed door, not open to the public and not open to the media.

Offline Mr Gorsky

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #56 on: April 16, 2012, 06:59:19 AM »
Ka9q correction Warren Commission, was closed door, not open to the public and not open to the media.


Since the outcomes and evidence given have all been released, that would make it private rather than secret. There is quite a big difference.
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Offline Ranb

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #57 on: April 16, 2012, 07:00:20 AM »
Rnab it would be positive to agree on something, can we agree .....

I can only agree to the fact that you have derailed your thread by going off to topics completely unrelated to shooters other than Oswald.  When can we expect you to get back on topic?

Ranb

Offline Ranb

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #58 on: April 16, 2012, 07:20:57 AM »
JFK when hit, the impact drove him back and to his left.

Do you understand that this claim means very little to anyone who knows firearms?  A human head is a fluid filled sphere with a hard shell.  There are other forces at work besides the bullet hitting it.  If I shoot a low speed bullet at a steel pendulum (a gong), it will swing around as much of the energy is expended by fragmentation and changing the direction of those pieces.  If I shoot it with a high speed bullet that pierces the metal, it will not swing at much as less energy was transferred to the gong.

If I shoot a fluid filled object, the action of the fluid inside of the object may have a larger influence on how it moves than the bullet does. 

Here is a video I made of a 50 caliber rifle shooting frozen pumpkins.

This rifle fires a bullet with a high mass and speed giving it more than 7 times the power of the ammunition used in a 6.5mm Carcano.  Watch the video at 32 seconds and 39 seconds.  The pumpkin does not move very far in either case and actually falls toward the shooter the second time. 

People who use the motion of JFK's head to say where the bullet came from are just as ignorant as those who say the recovered bullet was pristine.  In your OP you wanted to talk about shooters, when are you getting back on topic?

Ranb
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 09:25:55 AM by Ranb »

Offline twik

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Re: JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots
« Reply #59 on: April 16, 2012, 08:23:04 AM »
Common sense would tell you that any sensible conspirator would not have multiple shooters from completely different angles.

The argument, I gather, is that this arrangement would be in case the shooter from the back missed. If one considers the risk of missing, surely that is tripled with three separate shooters. If I want to be sure that the shooting can be ascribed to one shooter from the back, what would happen to all my plans if, say, the shooter from the grassy knoll missed and hit the car from the side? Or hit Jackie? Or was simply spotted by someone who unexpectedly stood close to the shooter's location?

It's a silly theory. You can argue, perhaps, that Oswald was not the shooter from the Depository, or was part of a larger conspiracy. However, multiple assassins in different locations would be an idiotic way of committing an assassination that was to be ascribed to a single person.