JFK - 3 shooters 6 shots

[Jason Thompson]

Then again trained proffessionals could not as McIntyre said "none of us could determine the origin of the shots"

The fact that they were trained professionals doesn't make their ears any more capable of discerning direction of shots than anyone else's. The fact that tye did not see Oswald when they looked towards the TSBD does not mean he wasn't there. Have you seen how many windows that building has? Are they supposed to have been able to zero in on the right one immediately somehow?

Why do you suppose John Ready was called back when he started to go to JFK's aid, did anyone ask Emory Roberts why he recalled Ready?

Because once the President's head had been shot open what more is there to do than drive him, in the car he is already in, to the hospital?
 

then slowed the limo down almost to a stop right after the first shot was fired.

In other words, you think that a driver hearing a loud bang wouldn't ordinarily slow or stop? Do you drive? Do you know any driver that would immediately accelerate on hearing a loud bang rather than stopping or slowing ti check the bang wasn't their car breaking?

Kellerman who should have jumped over the seats to protect the president

Who says he should have jumped over the seats to protect him? Is that just your assumption that that's what agents do? Please do feel free to tell us exactly what that would have achieved in that time.

is in the front seat ducking down and yelling go go go or whatever.

The best way to protect a man in a vehicle being shot at is to urge the driver to take him away from the scene as quickly as possible. Not leap over the seats and make a bad situation worse.

You guys need to at least try and incorporate some facts into your fantasy story, it would make it more believable if you used any facts at all.

I hardly think you are in a position to say that, given the outright lying, lack of research and general refusal to accept reality you have demonstrated.

[Jason Thompson]

The problem is you have to discount the majority opinion in every category I have posted to maintain your position.

No, the problem is that you refuse to understand that reality is not determined by majority consensus. And you discount other evidence, like the fact that someone in the building testified hearing a rifle bolt and spent shells hitting the floor above him, or that others testify seeing a sniper in the window.

Where is the corroborating evidence of a sniper on the knoll? How does a sniper on the knoll inflict the wounds seen on JFK and Connally?
 

The witnesses testimonies do not support the WC report.

Witness testimonies make up a small portion of the evidence on which the findings of the commission are based. They are not expected to all say the same thing, and they are not given more weight than physical evidence.

Why don't you tell us exactly what happened and provide your evidence for it? Start by telling us exactly how JFK and Connally sustained the wounds they did from a sniper positioned on the knoll, explaining why you discount the FACT that it has been shown that a rifle from the TSBD could have inflicted those wounds.

I suspect you can't, because you don't actually have an alternative. Your only objective is to show that the WC report is somehow wrong or false. Sorry, but that is simply insufficient.

[twik]

I'm not sure how you think this helps your position. It clearly indicates that people were confused by the acoustics, and were having a hard time remembering the exact details.

In other words, whatever happened left "anomalies" simply because that is human nature.

Not at all, what this shows is that whatever a person has their attention on, that becomes part of their experience, some people are more visual some are audio.
The problem is you have to discount the majority opinion in every category I have posted to maintain your position. 
The witnesses testimonies do not support the WC report.
Not surprising since they made it up.

I still don't get your point - "whatever a person has their attention on, that becomes part of their experience" is obvious, but I cannot figure out why you think this helps your case. Multiple witnesses recalled multiple "patterns" in the shots. Since we will assume, in the real world, there was only one "true" pattern, a large number of them must be testifying to something that is not correct.

Do you consider them lying, or simply mistaken? And if they are mistaken, could that not explain the vast majority of your other discrepancies? That people are not digital recorders, and *any* testimony must be considered as coming "through a glass, darkly"?

Here's a test for you. Watch, say, ten minutes of a movie or tv show. Then, an hour later, sit down and write out *everything* you saw and heard - all movements of actors and objects, all the background, and all the dialogue. Then go back and watch the same clip. Unless you are possessed of a photographic memory, I think you will find that you have missed many things, and distorted many more.

[profmunkin]

William McIntyre - did not testify under oath to the WC

Is this the reason you felt justified about lying when you said almost all of them did not know where the shots came from when in fact the vast majority said they came from the rear or right rear?

McIntyre 51 line report, 6 lines described the assassination.
"The Presidential vehicle was approximately 200 feet from the underpass when the first shot was fired, followed in quick succession by two more. I would estimate that all three shots were fired within 5 seconds. After the second shot, I looked at the President and witnessed his being struck in the head by the third and last shot. By that time, Mr. Roberts had used the radio in our car to direct the vehicles to a hospital. Most, if not all the agents in the follow-up car had drawn their weapons and agent Hickey was handling the AR-15. None of us could determine the origin of the shots, and no shots were fired by any agent."

1 /12 Not one of the majority

[profmunkin]

John Ready - did not testify under oath to the WC

Is this the reason you felt justified about lying when you said almost all of them did not know where the shots came from when in fact the vast majority said they came from the rear or right rear?

Ready : 38 lines in report, about 5 devoted to assassination.

"I was about 25-30 feet from President Kennedy who was located in the right rear seat. I heard what appeared to be fire crackers going off from my position. I immediately turned to my right rear trying to locate the source but was not able to determine the exact location.

At this time the U.S. Secret Service follow-up car seemed to slow and I heard someone from inside this car say: ''he's shot". I left the follow-up car in the direction of the President's car but was recalled by ATSAIC Emory Roberts (Secret Service) as the cars increased their speeds. I got back on the car and seated myself beside Mr. Roberts in the right front seat. "

I hate to be pickey but where does he say the shots came from?
He doesn't say

[profmunkin]

Paul Landis - did not testify under oath to the WC

Is this the reason you felt justified about lying when you said almost all of them did not know where the shots came from when in fact the vast majority said they came from the rear or right rear?

Landis about 200 line report, 32 lines to assassination.
"I immediately returned my gaze, over my right shoulder"
" I still was not certain from which direction the second shot came, but my reaction at this time was that the shot came from somewhere towards the front, right-hand side of the road."

looked back first shot - confusion - also may be echo off the TSBD
second shot front right.

[profmunkin]

Samual Kinney - did not testify under oath to the WC

Is this the reason you felt justified about lying when you said almost all of them did not know where the shots came from when in fact the vast majority said they came from the rear or right rear?

Kinney 60 line report, 10 line to assassination.

"As we completed the left turn and on a short distance, there was a shot. At this time I glanced from the taillights of the President's car, that I use for gauging distances for driving. I saw the President lean toward the left and appeared to have grabbed his chest with his right hand. There was a second of pause and then two more shots were heard. Agent Clinton Hill jumped from the follow-up car and dashed to the aid of the President and First Lady in the President's car. I saw one shot strike the President in the right side of the head. The President then fell to the seat to the left toward Mrs. Kennedy. At this time I stepped on the siren and gas pedal at the same time."

Direction - not mentioned

[profmunkin]

Glen Bennett - did not testify under oath to the WC

Is this the reason you felt justified about lying when you said almost all of them did not know where the shots came from when in fact the vast majority said they came from the rear or right rear?

Bennet 23 line report, 7 lines to assassination.
"At the moment I looked at the back of the President I heard another fire-cracker noise and saw the shot hit the President about four inches down from the right shoulder. A second shot followed immediately and hit the right rear high of the President's head. I immediately hollered "he's hit'' and reached for the AR-15 located on the floor of the rear seat. Special Agent Hickey had already picked-up the AR-I5. We peered towards the rear and particularly the right side of the area. I had drawn my revolver when I saw S/A Hickey had the AR15. I was unable to see anything or one that could have fired the shots. The President's car immediately kicked into high gear and the follow-up car followed."

"particularly the right side of the area" - this is the knoll area.

[profmunkin]

David Powers - did not testify under oath to the WC

Is this the reason you felt justified about lying when you said almost all of them did not know where the shots came from when in fact the vast majority said they came from the rear or right rear?

Powers 62 line report, 9 line to assassination.

"President moved quite far to his left after the shot from the extreme right hand side where he had been sitting"
"My first impression was that the shots came from the right and overhead, but I also had a fleeting impression that the noise appeared to come from the front in the area of the triple overpass."

Knoll

[profmunkin]

George Hickey - did not testify under oath to the WC

Is this the reason you felt justified about lying when you said almost all of them did not know where the shots came from when in fact the vast majority said they came from the rear or right rear?

Hickey 75 line report, 13 lines to assassination.

"appeared to come from the right and rear "

hate to be pickey again but he never says where he thought the shots came from.

[profmunkin]

Emory Roberts - did not testify under oath to the WC

Is this the reason you felt justified about lying when you said almost all of them did not know where the shots came from when in fact the vast majority said they came from the rear or right rear?

Roberts 150 line report, 3-6  lines to the assassination

"--12:30 p.m. First of three shots fired, at which time I saw the President lean toward Mrs. Kennedy. I do not know if it was the next shot or third shot that hit the President in the head, but I saw what appeared to be a small explosion on the right_ side of the President's head, saw blood, at which time the President fell further to his left. Mrs. Kennedy was leaning toward the President, however, she immediately raised up in the seat and appeared to be getting up on back of same. About this time I saw SA Clinton Hill trying to get on left rear step of the President's car."

no mention of direction of shots

[profmunkin]

Is this the reason you felt justified about lying when you said most of them did not know where the shots came from when in fact the vast majority said they came from the rear or right rear?

ODonnell "Mr. O'DONNELL. My reaction in part is reconstruction---is that they came from the right rear. That would be my best judgment."

He had no opinion of where the shots came at the time.

[Echnaton]

Profmunkin, none of these posts seem to advance your proposition of a conspiracy.  This has been a long tedious thread, please  give us a theory that would incorporate your belief or go away and bother some other forum. 

[gillianren]

Nine posts in rapid succession, and I bet not one would be worth reading.

[profmunkin]

Is this the reason you felt justified about lying when you said most of them did not know where the shots came from when in fact the vast majority said they came from the rear or right rear?

Hill "And I heard a noise from my right rear, which to me seemed to be a firecracker. I immediately looked to my right"

He hears a noise to the rear
This again must be that echo thing you guys are talking about.