Author Topic: Jarrah White  (Read 51288 times)

Offline dwight

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Re: Jarrah White
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2015, 01:56:16 AM »
Hi Chief,

I noticed you wondered about the confetti artefacts as brought up by SG Collins. If you are interested (and I hope LO doesnt mind me plugging them) I wrote two books on NASA TV development from Mercury through to Shuttle. Live TV From the Moon and Live TV From Orbit.

I advise getting them direct from Apogee Books, as I have seen the outrageous prices demanded by Amazon sellers.

Stuff like the confetti and who filmed Neil Armstrong stepping off the LM are covered.

Regards
Dwight
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 01:58:27 AM by dwight »
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Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Jarrah White
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2015, 06:37:53 AM »
I advise getting them direct from Apogee Books, as I have seen the outrageous prices demanded by Amazon sellers.

I'd love to, but its out of stock. >:(

Anyone got a copy that they'd be willing to sell?
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline Chief

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Re: Jarrah White
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2015, 06:36:50 PM »
Thanks for the pep talk Jay, unnecessary but I'll take whatever I can get. I'm the most intelligent person I know, which is not saying much at all really ;D


You're not missing much.  I was a member for a few years, but then realized they are largely the kind of people who can talk your ear off about hyperspatial manifolds, then go out to the car and pour the oil in their radiators instead of the crankcase.  In the subsequent years I've learned that thinking critically is a more valuable skill than the kind of stuff Mensa tests you on.  I worked as a contract engineer on the Boeing 777 and the Boeing 787 projects (oddly enough in very different roles), but I've probably learned more about jet engines from watching Agent JZ on YouTube than I ever did from my actual professional training.




I figured that was the case with the Mensa lot and I prefer to talk about engine manifolds.

I do love gas turbines, I've always thought there is something very graceful about them, noisy, but graceful. I still have my hand written notes on my shelf from when I was studying them and have a read occasionally. I think I should have done medicine with my handwriting the way it was though.

One of the guys I was studying with at the time found out something quite incredible. He was visiting his aged grandmother and she asked him how he was going at school and what he was studying.

He told her and mentioned that he was learning about jet engines.

Her initial comment was "Oh do they still make them?" to which he replied that of course most passenger planes use them.

She then went on to tell him that around the late 30s his great uncle was working with a man on jet engines. His name was Whittle!

He was getting into the family business without even knowing it.

Dwight, Sacrilege I know, but you don't publish an electronic copy do you?

That was my reason for asking.  I know that I'd chuck his resume into the trash the instant I saw his online presence.  He's not a kid anymore, I believe he's in his mid-30s.  He ought to be out earning a living and building a career.  As much as I dislike the guy for what he's doing and for his poor behaviour, it is a sad waste of a life if he has ruined his future with all this hoax nonsense.

He has made his bed he can sleep in it. He may be a qualified broom technician, or a vehicle performance enhancement officer specialising in the reduction of the CD who knows?

Although, not everyone does that thorough a background check, as long as they have the qualifications for the job it would come down to personality and communication skills. I have a feeling that if he came in to my office for a job, and I didn't check him out online, he would probably come across as articulate and capable. But that is why I have a six month probation period.



Now that you mention it, he was invited to present his "findings" on space radiation and Apollo to qualified university faculty in his city.  All he had to do was show up.  He refused even to acknowledge that the invitation had been tendered.  That to me speaks volumes not only for his competence, but for his recognition of how badly his claims would fare outside his selected walled gardens.  He went back and tried to delete the evidence of his public failures.  This to me indicates a deliberate attempt to deceive.


I agree with you there. He is deceptive, he uses the same tactics as many other conspiracy theorists by taking snap shots of video, comments, text etc. and, as far as I am concerned deliberately failing to show those pieces which would counter his arguments. His m.o. is typical. That is why I doubt he really believes in a hoax.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 06:38:52 PM by Chief »

Offline Echnaton

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Re: Jarrah White
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2015, 11:44:23 AM »
I figured that was the case with the Mensa lot

I thought about Mensa too.  Until i was helping a friend with his rental properties and one major problem was some Mensa geek who didn't understand why his super intelligence was an insufficient substitute for the rent.  I guess it was really all he had. 
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: Jarrah White
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2015, 02:30:43 PM »
I advise getting them direct from Apogee Books, as I have seen the outrageous prices demanded by Amazon sellers.

I'd love to, but its out of stock. >:(

Anyone got a copy that they'd be willing to sell?

Abebooks has some at almost sensible prices, depending on which book and where in the world you are:

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?an=Dwight+Steven-Boniecki&sts=t


Offline bknight

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Re: Jarrah White
« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2015, 11:47:07 AM »
It's also difficult to reconcile his blatant mathematical incompetence with the pursuit of a degree in physics (or any science subject)

Indeed his first downfall at IMDb was a fairly straightforward application of calculus. 

I found and read some of the thread, but became too fatigued to continue.

Jay, did he ever come up with the calculation? 

And for that matter what is the calculation?  I hope you finally presented an answer for all the lurkers like me.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Jarrah White
« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2015, 01:53:51 PM »
It's also difficult to reconcile his blatant mathematical incompetence with the pursuit of a degree in physics (or any science subject)

Indeed his first downfall at IMDb was a fairly straightforward application of calculus. 

I found and read some of the thread, but became too fatigued to continue.

Jay, did he ever come up with the calculation? 

And for that matter what is the calculation?  I hope you finally presented an answer for all the lurkers like me.

Bob B has produced the calculations. There is a thread somewhere (someone help me here) with the link to Bob's work and the wonderful graphic showing Jarrah's botched attempts post-IMDb to produce said calculation. Jarrah's attempt to produce a calculation finished up being the area of a rectangle rather than the integrated dose across a flux of different particle energy.

The blue red graph of which I speak highlights that he still did not understand Jay's probing questions, nor the fundamental ideas of calculus. It is also very amusing.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2015, 01:59:33 PM by Luke Pemberton »
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline Bob B.

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Re: Jarrah White
« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2015, 04:31:13 PM »
Bob B has produced the calculations. There is a thread somewhere (someone help me here) with the link to Bob's work and the wonderful graphic showing Jarrah's botched attempts post-IMDb to produce said calculation. Jarrah's attempt to produce a calculation finished up being the area of a rectangle rather than the integrated dose across a flux of different particle energy.

The blue red graph of which I speak highlights that he still did not understand Jay's probing questions, nor the fundamental ideas of calculus. It is also very amusing.

There have been several threads that have dealt with this issue in one way or another.  The following are the ones I remember:

A rebuttal to Jarrah's latest masterpiece
UH-OH! More bad info for Wunder-Blunder to use!
Response from "American Scientist" editor
Response from Dr. Odenwald regarding VAB electron energy

The graph that Luke talks about above is in the second thread, page 4, post #58.

For additional reading, the following are the articles that I wrote about this topic:

Review of Jarrah White's "Radioactive Anomaly III"
Apollo and the Van Allen Belts (an estimate of the radiation dose received)
Apollo 11's Translunar Trajectory (and how they avoided the heart of the radiation belts)


Offline bknight

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Re: Jarrah White
« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2015, 10:32:55 AM »
Bob B has produced the calculations. There is a thread somewhere (someone help me here) with the link to Bob's work and the wonderful graphic showing Jarrah's botched attempts post-IMDb to produce said calculation. Jarrah's attempt to produce a calculation finished up being the area of a rectangle rather than the integrated dose across a flux of different particle energy.

The blue red graph of which I speak highlights that he still did not understand Jay's probing questions, nor the fundamental ideas of calculus. It is also very amusing.

There have been several threads that have dealt with this issue in one way or another.  The following are the ones I remember:

A rebuttal to Jarrah's latest masterpiece
UH-OH! More bad info for Wunder-Blunder to use!
Response from "American Scientist" editor
Response from Dr. Odenwald regarding VAB electron energy

The graph that Luke talks about above is in the second thread, page 4, post #58.

For additional reading, the following are the articles that I wrote about this topic:

Review of Jarrah White's "Radioactive Anomaly III"
Apollo and the Van Allen Belts (an estimate of the radiation dose received)
Apollo 11's Translunar Trajectory (and how they avoided the heart of the radiation belts)

Ok, while not being a rocket scientist or an aerospace engineer (I'm an inner ground engineer), the figures that I saw in the discussion were (I had to return to the first couple of pages for the data):

Here is just one of the August flares.
720802 72077 1958-2355 13 -27 2B 11976 22333 13

And here is just one of the Apollo flares
700415 70052 0413-0530 13 85 2B 10670 32333 14

When Jay gave an immediate assessment of the of the answer, I assumed it was a trivial calculation.
I don't know:
1. where this data exists
2. nor what is represented, except for the date information
3. how the density/rate leading to the lethality is calculated
I believe I am similar to a majority of the people who happen by these videos "demonstrations".  I remember integrating data back in school, but haven't used most of the advanced math since graduation.  That's why I asked how the results were calculated.

In one of your pages you stated something like this: radiation is bad + there is radiation in space = space is bad
You should realize that many view that equation to be correct, not studying (or being too lazy) the actual data to arrive at an assessment of the effects.  I guess that is why so many HB's use the radiation as "proof" it wasn't accomplished and  why it hasn't been repeated.  You guys do good work in debunking the bad science/technology, but many in my work associates (mostly only high school educated), who believe the HB's don't visit sites like this to learn they are being mislead by those who state the trash.  Trying to show them the why the HB's are wrong took too much effort and I quit trying.  Now I have some other places to direct them.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Jarrah White
« Reply #54 on: July 16, 2015, 01:58:53 PM »
Ok, while not being a rocket scientist or an aerospace engineer (I'm an inner ground engineer), the figures that I saw in the discussion were (I had to return to the first couple of pages for the data):

Here is just one of the August flares.
720802 72077 1958-2355 13 -27 2B 11976 22333 13

And here is just one of the Apollo flares
700415 70052 0413-0530 13 85 2B 10670 32333 14

When Jay gave an immediate assessment of the of the answer, I assumed it was a trivial calculation.
I don't know:
1. where this data exists
2. nor what is represented, except for the date information
3. how the density/rate leading to the lethality is calculated
I believe I am similar to a majority of the people who happen by these videos "demonstrations".  I remember integrating data back in school, but haven't used most of the advanced math since graduation.  That's why I asked how the results were calculated.

In one of your pages you stated something like this: radiation is bad + there is radiation in space = space is bad
You should realize that many view that equation to be correct, not studying (or being too lazy) the actual data to arrive at an assessment of the effects.  I guess that is why so many HB's use the radiation as "proof" it wasn't accomplished and  why it hasn't been repeated.  You guys do good work in debunking the bad science/technology, but many in my work associates (mostly only high school educated), who believe the HB's don't visit sites like this to learn they are being mislead by those who state the trash.  Trying to show them the why the HB's are wrong took too much effort and I quit trying.  Now I have some other places to direct them.

I have read the IMDb thread and exchanged PMs with Jay on this subject. Jay will probably want to speak for himself, but the debate was more subtle than providing calculations. Jay's initial probe was to ascertain if Jarrah could show a correlation between H-alpha events and proton fluence at the Earth Moon system, as Jarrah had been keen citing H-alpha data (e.g. above in your post). My understanding was that Jay was looking for Jarrah to trip up and claim that there was a correlation with Solar Proton Events (SPEs) and the H-alpha prominence data that Jarrah cites. At this point it was evident that Jarrah was clueless, and further probing showed that Jarrah was not only clueless about integrated dose across an energy dependent flux, but was also clueless about calculus itself.

In the follow up, Jarrah claims that Jay was asking an unfair question as no GOES proton data exists pre-1976, so how could Jarrah answer the question about proton fluence. I have pointed out to Jarrah that if no proton data exists before 1976, how can he prove SPE events occurred during Apollo flights? He has not answered this point.

What Jarrah forgets, is that he uses SPE events (CME driven shock data, not flare data) that were reported pre-Apollo, and applies this to the duration of an H-alpha prominence by simply multiplying average dose rate from his pre-Apollo proton data by time. Hence Jarrah gets a rectangular box.

Jarrah also does not understand how SPE events were detected pre-GOES and how we know that during Apollo flights there were no SPE events. One does not need a satellite in space to detect SPEs. In fact they can be detected by various means at ground level and using high altitude detectors. Jarrah is clueless, and his knowledge of physics is poor.

« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 02:04:36 PM by Luke Pemberton »
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Jarrah White
« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2015, 03:18:51 PM »
Jay will probably want to speak for himself...

No need.  That's a very good summary.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Jarrah White
« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2015, 03:39:22 PM »
Jay will probably want to speak for himself...

No need.  That's a very good summary.

Good and thank you. I don't like speaking for others, but I also feel that if the words come from the mouth of another horse, then it shows the community here are consistent in our views and the intial debate was cogent.

Also, thanks to Bob for the links. A nice summary of the counter arguments to White's idocy.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 03:41:46 PM by Luke Pemberton »
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline bknight

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Re: Jarrah White
« Reply #57 on: July 16, 2015, 03:45:38 PM »
Luke and Jay(you posted while I started to run this):
I have been for the past 3 days querying NOAA concerning the data and where it is located, all the 6 year old links are broken.  Anyway I have been shown where the data exists, now the task to try to understand it.

Here is a video, which in part is directed at Jay, Phil and NASA.  You have probably seen it but some may not.


Now I did some research on CFI for Major Flares:
ftp://ftp.ngdc.noaa.gov/STP/SOLAR_DATA/SOLAR_FLARES/FLARES_IN?DEX/McMath/CFI55_80.TXT

The data in the format of what I believe to be pertinent to the discussion(the reason for the NOAA contact):
 YYMMDD ID# UT Lat Long Imp Plage abcde Index
 720802 72075 0316-0451 13 -35 1B 11976 32322 12
 720802 72075 0505-0800 14 -34 SN 11976 32322 12
 720802 72076 1838-1859 14 -26 1B 11976 21200 5?
 720802 72077 1958-2355 13 -27 2B 11976 22333 13

Now since I don't know the calculation, I don't know which of these were dangerous in order 1 through 4; or for that matter if any were life threatening.

I know the missions are not fake and it irritates me that so many do believe they were.  I can remember when FOX aired "Conspiracy Theory: Did We Land on the Moon?", and being FOX had been fairly presenting both sides of a particular argument.  I kept WAITING for the opposing point of view, right up to the credits.  I took FOX off my TV for many years.  Since I'm not working as many days this year, I just started delving back into the HB's.   I was amazed on how many have joined the "cause", Sibrel, Percy and Allen obviously for monetary benefit.  This correlated well to some of my previous work mates feelings, so I should not have been surprised.

Edited to add not in the last paragraph, getting old is hell sometimes

2nd Edit OMG, Luke your comment concerning h-alpha data revised my NOAA search and I found the table I had been searching.  Thanks

« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 04:02:27 PM by bknight »
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Jarrah White
« Reply #58 on: July 16, 2015, 04:20:47 PM »

 720802 72075 0316-0451 13 -35 1B 11976 32322 12
 720802 72075 0505-0800 14 -34 SN 11976 32322 12
 720802 72076 1838-1859 14 -26 1B 11976 21200 5?
 720802 72077 1958-2355 13 -27 2B 11976 22333 13


The flares occurred during the 1972 solar storm, but these data describe the duration of H-alpha prominences, areas of the sun where filament heating occurs. The coding 1B, SN, and 2B describe the 'magnitude' of the prominence. I'd have to go digging in the loft for a text, but if I recall the number pertains to the brightness of the prominence and the letter pertains to the area of the prominence. It is quite a subjective classification. SN, I'm fairly sure, means it is too minor to classify. The number goes up as far as 4, which is the brightest prominence. The third set of numbers describe the duration of the prominence. This time does not represent the time of a solar flare, it represents the duration of the flare developing from initial heating to the final connection of the magnetic field. The final connection period is where the flare produces soft x-rays over a duration, typically measured in seconds.

The solar storm that occurred at the same time was created by a shock driven CME, and such events are accompanied by active regions of the sun showing H-alpha prominences. However, an H-alpha prominence does not always correlate with a shock driven CME. In other words, shock driven CMEs are usually a result of rearrangement of the solar magnetic field and ejection of plasma, where regions of the sun become H-alpha active. Regions of the sun can also become H-alpha active, but there is no large scale rearrangement of the magnetic field.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Jarrah White
« Reply #59 on: July 16, 2015, 04:43:31 PM »
Here is a video, which in part is directed at Jay, Phil and NASA.  You have probably seen it but some may not.


Curiosity killed this cat in the end. That's a video made by a certain individual called Rick (un4g1v3n1). I really wouldn't give him any traffic or any time. He and his close friends have more vitriol than your average hoaxer-bear. He's out and out called me a paedophile for opposing his hoax nonsense. He's also thrown that accusation at others, for... wait for it... believing the official Apollo story.

It took me a while to work out why he went to this default accusation, and I think that it is because he links Apollo with the God and that God had a certain taste in young boys (my mythology is poor here) ???. That's the logic of him, so I'd pay him and his sort very little attention and not give his videos any view traffic.

Jarrah White and Rick are the best of chums. They say you can't choose your family, but you can choose your friends. Jarrah, the highly moralistic Grandson [sarcasm mode], chooses to keep him as a bed fellow, so I'd say that Jarrah's morals are pretty low too, and rather hypocritical. Jarrah sells himself on wanting to play a clean game, but is quite happy for his friends to behave like rabid attack dogs if Jay, Phil Plait and Adam Savage are in the firing line.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 06:00:44 PM by Luke Pemberton »
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch