Author Topic: Apollo and Stars  (Read 75357 times)

Offline bknight

  • Neptune
  • ****
  • Posts: 3132
Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2015, 09:27:27 PM »
Quit hiding your feelings, how do you really feel about Daleks.  :)
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline nomuse

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 859
Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2015, 10:02:24 PM »
There's an out-take I saw once. The poor Dalek (who was also the voice actor in this case) didn't hear "cut" and of course couldn't see much of anything. So he kept going, "exterminate! Exterminate! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINEAATE!!!" with each phrase somehow managing to get it louder and angrier (and higher)....

Offline smartcooky

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1966
Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2015, 11:18:27 PM »
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline bknight

  • Neptune
  • ****
  • Posts: 3132
Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2015, 11:25:16 PM »
Poor babies, they just can't win this one.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline nomuse

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 859
Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2015, 11:36:07 PM »
To be fair, Four sneered at them when they couldn't climb up a rope to pursue him. But Seven knew better -- although it still startled Ace when the Dalek showed off it's new ability to "Elevate! Elevate!!" ...err, you know the pun by now. By New Who, they are swooping all over the landscape.

Offline OhPulease

  • Venus
  • **
  • Posts: 26
Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2015, 07:48:58 AM »
Thanks for the responses all. Didn't intend to bail last night but something came up - please, no elevate jokes!

I'd rather not Ace came into the thread, in my opinion she helped to mark the terminal decline of the program at the time.

When comparing Blunder to the Daleks I suddenly feel a lot of sympathy for the Daleks, also, their physics might be Dr Who land but they are still more internally consistent than the Blunders.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 07:52:11 AM by OhPulease »

Offline Luckmeister

  • Venus
  • **
  • Posts: 91
Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2015, 10:58:42 AM »
Look what I found last year in a yard sale 2 blocks from my house.

"There are powers in this universe beyond anything you know. … There is much you have to learn. … Go to your homes. Go and give thought to the mysteries of the universe. I will leave you now, in peace." --Galaxy Being

Offline bknight

  • Neptune
  • ****
  • Posts: 3132
Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2015, 11:05:33 AM »
Look what I found last year in a yard sale 2 blocks from my house.


Is it a TV artifact or a custom built by some Dr. Who enthusiast?  Looks fairly accurate, but that was 20 years ago and I suffer from CRS.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Luckmeister

  • Venus
  • **
  • Posts: 91
Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2015, 11:11:48 AM »
The family built it and put their daughter in it in a small electric wheelchair. It moved around, had lights and sounds, the top swiveled and it had remote control functions as well. The Dalek attended numerous public events and promotions. They were selling it for $250 totally gutted inside.
"There are powers in this universe beyond anything you know. … There is much you have to learn. … Go to your homes. Go and give thought to the mysteries of the universe. I will leave you now, in peace." --Galaxy Being

Offline Kiwi

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 483
Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2015, 11:56:39 AM »
Patrick Moore asked this at the Press Conference-

"I have two brief questions that I would like to ask, if I may. When you were carrying out that incredible Moon walk, did you find that the surface was equally firm everywhere or were there harder and softer spots that you could detect. And, secondly, when you looked up at the sky, could you actually see the stars in the solar corona in spite of the glare?"

Michael Collins response was

"I saw none"

The Hoaxers seem to jump on this but as he never walked on the moon in my eyes this was an obvious joke...

"I saw none" is not the answer Collins gave, and he didn't immediately answer Moore.  Here is Moore's question and the three responses as given by the astronauts.  They come from this link:
http://history.nasa.gov/ap11ann/FirstLunarLanding/ch-7.html

For clarity, I've fixed a typo (varlous to various) and changed "Reporter" to "Moore" and the second "Aldrin" to "Collins" to match the video.

Quote
MOORE  I have two brief questions that I would like to ask, if I may. When you were carrying out that incredible Moon walk, did you find that the surface was equally firm everywhere or were there harder and softer spots that you could detect. And, secondly, when you looked up at the sky, could you actually see the stars in the solar corona in spite of the glare? 

ALDRIN  The first part of your question, the surface did vary in its thickness of penetration somewhere in flat regions. The footprint would penetrate a half an inch or sometimes only a quarter of an inch and gave a very firm response. In other regions near the edges of these craters we could find that the foot would sink down maybe 2, 3, possibly 4 inches and in the slope, of course, the various edges of the footprint might go up to 6 or 7 inches. In compacting this material it would tend to produce a slight sideways motion as it was compacted on the material underneath it. So we feel that you cannot always tell by looking at the surface what the exact resistance will be as your foot sinks into a point of firm contact. So one must be quite cautious in moving around in this rough surface. 

ARMSTRONG  We were never able to see stars from the lunar surface or on the daylight side of the Moon by eye without looking through the optics. I don't recall during the period of time that we were photographing the solar corona what stars we could see. 

COLLINS  I don't remember seeing any.

As you can see, Collins's comment directly follows Armstrong talking about them photographing the solar corona, which they did when all three were in lunar orbit, not when Armstrong and Aldrin were on the surface. So although Mike Collins has a great sense of humour, he's not joking here and is just making a factual comment about not remembering seeing stars in the corona.

Other posters have given good answers about why hoax-believers quote things out of context. In ten words, "incompetence, inaccuracy, and maybe even a deliberate intent to deceive."

Edited to add: And welcome to ApolloHoax.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 12:47:51 PM by Kiwi »
Don't criticize what you can't understand. — Bob Dylan, “The Times They Are A-Changin'” (1963)
Some people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices and superstitions. — Edward R. Murrow (1908–65)

Offline bknight

  • Neptune
  • ****
  • Posts: 3132
Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2015, 12:01:49 PM »
...
Other posters have given good answers about why hoax-believers quote things out of context. In ten words, "incompetence, inaccuracy, and maybe even a deliberate intent to deceive."
Surely you don't infer that HB's don't know the "truth"? ::)
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline OhPulease

  • Venus
  • **
  • Posts: 26
Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2015, 12:35:23 PM »
Thanks for the welcome folks. I just read it as when (apologies I misquoted) he said he didn't remember seeing any he laughed.

I took this as a humorous aside, I did say at the end of my original post I might be missing something, but it just struck me that he was joking about not being on the surface.

I have the full Press conference along with the transcript which includes images of the slides they were referring to (as does everyone here I assume as unlike a certain persons 'super secret film of Earth from Apollo' they are easily available. It just struck me that I thought he was making a joke.

Editing to add. Sorry Kiwi, having gone back and checked. Those are exactly the pages I am referring to above. Please put it down to new poster blues.

« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 12:55:30 PM by OhPulease »

Offline Kiwi

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 483
Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2015, 12:59:56 PM »
I have the full Press conference along with the transcript which includes images of the slides they were referring to...

Link to the cover page of the press conference, which was on 12 August 1969:
http://history.nasa.gov/ap11ann/FirstLunarLanding/cover.html

Worthy of note in the questions are the usual cringeworthy "how did it feel" queries, which few of the early astronauts, other than John Glenn, were any good at answering.  NASA hadn't trained them for public speaking.

Mike Collins summed it up quite well in the extras to the DVD of the movie, "In the Shadow of the Moon":--

Behind the Shadow
6. How do I feel?
0:00:10   Mike Collins:  Here is one of the most momentous occasions.  For the first time you've got three human beings that are leaving their home planet.  They're leaving Mother Earth, they're flying off to God knows where — we hope the moon.  Never been done before.  So what do you say?  You say, "Apollo 8, you are Go for TLI. Over."
0:00:30   Mike Collins:  It should've been, I don't know, some kind of invitation or a salutation or important message or some better way of communicating than saying, "You're Go for TLI."  But any way, that was the way the space programme was.
0:00:48   Columbia above the Sea of Tranquillity.  Crater Maskelyne, 24 km diameter, top right.
0:00:51   Maskelyne W, "Wash Basin", top centre.
0:00:53   Maskelyne B, top right.
0:00:57   Columbia next to Boot Hill, south of the east side of Maskelyne.  Duke Island, south of the west side of Maskelyne, at 10:30 o'clock from Columbia.
0:00:59   Collins:  I think the space programme would've been considerably different in the public view if astronauts had been trained differently or if they were different people.
0:01:01   Sidewinder Rille left of top centre.
0:01:13   Collins:  We said earlier that being a military test pilot was the best background from a technical point of view, but was probably, I would add, the worst background from a public relations, of a public understanding, or an emotional point of view.
0:01:30   Collins:  We were trained to transmit vital pieces of information.  If someone had said from the ground to me in space, "Well, how do you feel about that?" I'd have said, "What?  Huh?"  You know, I don't know how I feel about that.  "You want the temperature?  You want the pressure?  You want the velocity?  You want the altitude?  What do you mean how do I feel about that?"
0:01:54   Collins:  It was not within our ken to share emotions or to utter extraneous information.  Yes, things were terse, they were clipped.  We were trained to give those essential pieces of information.
0:02:12   Collins:  It seems, maybe, rather short-sighted, almost cruel, you might say, not to want to share anything, but if, on the other hand, you think about a whole sky full of airplanes, you've got 30 or 40 jet fighters all up there all on the same frequency, and saying, "Blue Four, say your fuel state."
0:02:35   Collins:  "Well, I feel that my fuel state is just something that's so overwhelming to me I, I just am very reluctant but I have to report that I'm down to 1200 pounds."
0:02:45   Collins:  Well, that guy would get grounded.  He's supposed to, "Blue Four, 1200 pounds."
0:02:50   Collins:  So, perhaps that helps explain why we were so "tight-lipped", you might say.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 01:14:25 PM by Kiwi »
Don't criticize what you can't understand. — Bob Dylan, “The Times They Are A-Changin'” (1963)
Some people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices and superstitions. — Edward R. Murrow (1908–65)

Offline darren r

  • Earth
  • ***
  • Posts: 233
Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2015, 02:38:44 PM »
Whenever I read HB's using the astronauts' lack of emotional response as evidence of guilt or shame or something, I'm reminded of Jodie Foster's line in Contact ;

Some celestial event. No - no words. No words to describe it. Poetry! They should've sent a poet. So beautiful. So beautiful... I had no idea.

(Although, it has to be said that some of the astronauts did better than OK in this regard - 'One small step for a man' is very resonant, even if it was planned beforehand, and 'Magnificent desolation' is a powerful and poetic phrase).
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 02:51:06 PM by darren r »
" I went to the God D**n Moon!" Byng Gordon, 8th man on the Moon.

Offline nomuse

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 859
Re: Apollo and Stars
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2015, 06:10:53 PM »
Drat, on the tip of my tongue ...

Which astronaut said, "They should have sent a poet?"