Proof Apollo was hoaxed redux

[Glom]

I have always, and still do, use Sellotape in that vein. Took me till I was at legal drinking age to realise it was a brand.

[cjameshuff]

I have always, and still do, use Sellotape in that vein. Took me till I was at legal drinking age to realise it was a brand.

Around here the equivalent is Scotch tape. The "generic" equivalent being cellophane tape...though of course "cellophane" is itself a trademark that's become generic, at least in the US.

For a fully generic term, just "tape" will generally do.

[Echnaton]

For a fully generic term, just "tape" will generally do.

The first time I used "tape" to my kids for tape that did not have adhesive, they insisted that it was not tape.  When asked what to call it, they suggested "ribbon."   I brought out an old cassette and showed them that tape need not be adhesive and reminded them we used VCR tapes all the time.  That made sense to them. 

[gillianren]

Or there's bias tape, which is a sewing supply that I use now and again.  (You know, on those occasions when I have a working sewing machine.)  I'm pretty sure it predates sticky tape.

[gwiz]

I'm pretty sure it predates sticky tape.

As does the proverbial red tape.

[ka9q]

Talking of heat transfer, He Who Shall Not Be Named has recently presented Rene's calculations that 'show' the PLSS needed to contain 48 kg of water to cool the astronauts 'on a J-type mission.'

You're kidding me. Do the terms "heat of vaporization" appear anywhere? If you can merely get the correct figure for water, its relatively high evaporative cooling potential becomes rather obvious.

Or is he claiming the suit isn't as well insulated as it is?

Or are the astronauts each operating at a 10 kW metabolic rate?

Inquiring (and morbid) minds what to know: how does someone get such bogus results time after time without simply running away with his tail between his legs as any normal human would do when he's been as soundly and repeatedly thrashed in public as he has?

[gillianren]

As does the proverbial red tape.

Indeed; I'm pretty sure there's a "red tape" reference in A Tale of Two Cities, which is set during the French Revolution.

[Luke Pemberton]

Talking of heat transfer, He Who Shall Not Be Named has recently presented Rene's calculations that 'show' the PLSS needed to contain 48 kg of water to cool the astronauts 'on a J-type mission.'

You're kidding me. Do the terms "heat of vaporization" appear anywhere? If you can merely get the correct figure for water, its relatively high evaporative cooling potential becomes rather obvious.

Or is he claiming the suit isn't as well insulated as it is?

Or are the astronauts each operating at a 10 kW metabolic rate?

Inquiring (and morbid) minds what to know: how does someone get such bogus results time after time without simply running away with his tail between his legs as any normal human would do when he's been as soundly and repeatedly thrashed in public as he has?

This is the excerpt from NASA Mooned America. It's clear he has no understanding of heat exchangers. Some of the assumptions are staggering.



According to the authors of First On The Moon each PLSS was built to catch and disperse metabolic heat generated by the astronaut at an average rate of sixteen hundred  British Thermal Units an hour.

Since a BTU equals .2928 watts we have a total of 368 Watts (René's arithmetic error.) This should be added to the Sun's heat value for a total heat input of 571 watts. However we should calculate the heat radiated by the shady side of the suit. Before proceeding we must determine a temperature for the air in the suit. The higher the temperature, the easier it is for the air cooler to do the job. Let's assume that their suits stayed at 100°F. Looking back to the Temperature Conversion chart we see that this temperature is 311° Kelvin which we need to know in order to use the Stefan-Boltzmann radiation equation. We must invert the original formula to look like this.

I (watts) = K⁴ x ( A x e x a)

Thus we find that there are 80 watts being radiated. This must be subtracted from the 571 total watts, which leaves us with 491 watts.

To round out the numbers we add 9 watts for radios, pump heat, etc. for a total of 500 watts.

Since there are 860 calories per watt and, assuming we can work at 100% efficiency we must make enough ice to carry off 430,000 calories per hour. " In 4 hours that adds up to 1,720,000 calories

To lower the temperature of one gram of water one degree C requires the loss of one calorie of heat. Upon the formation of ice, a gram of water loses 80 calories. Therefore a temperature drop from 100° F (38° C) down to freezing (0° C) entails the transfer of 38 calories, and when that gram freezes it absorbs another 80 calories for a total of 118 calories per gram vented out the blowhole. If we divide that 1,720,000 calories by 118 we get 14,576 gms of water that we must eject.  This is 14.6 liters, which equals .514 cubic feet. That would take up 1/4 of the PLSS's volume. The weight of this is 32 pounds on Earth, which is or 38 % of the total claimed weight.

Using an efficiency of 40 %, which is still high compared to most mechanisms, and a suit temperature of 80° F, we find that 23.78 liters of throw away water is needed. This is 52.3 pounds on Earth, 62 % of the PLSS's total weight and .839 cubic feet which is 40 % of the unit's volume.

[Trebor]

The level of fail in that excerpt is staggering.

[Zakalwe]

Are they really so wrapped up in their frenzy to "prove" the "hoax" that they have completely lost their common sense filter??? Does he not realise that in normal activity a human male will need 2500 calories in 24 hours

[Luke Pemberton]

Are they really so wrapped up in their frenzy to "prove" the "hoax" that they have completely lost their common sense filter??? Does he not realise that in normal activity a human male will need 2500 calories in 24 hours

Don't we need 2,500,000 calories per day? The RDA is cited in kCal.

[Zakalwe]

Are they really so wrapped up in their frenzy to "prove" the "hoax" that they have completely lost their common sense filter??? Does he not realise that in normal activity a human male will need 2500 calories in 24 hours

Don't we need 2,500,000 calories per day? The RDA is cited in kCal.

Good point. There are two calories, the small calorie and the large calorie.When I was growing up, food intake was always measured in calories, but now it seems to be in kCalories.

It seems that I'm not the only one with this error
http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/publications/usdafoodpatterns/estimatedcalorieneedsperdaytable.pdf
^Extracted from the USDA Centre for Nutrition Policy & Promotion

[Luke Pemberton]

Good point. There are two calories, the small calorie and the large calorie.When I was growing up, food intake was always measured in calories, but now it seems to be in kCalories.

I think it is easier to say we need 2500 calories per day when in reality we need 2500 kcals. The extra saying of 'kilo' has made its way out of calorie speak. Whenever I hear anyone speak on TV about daily calorific requirements, they always use the term calories. Food labels are marked kcals though. This confused me for a while, but once kJ was also added to the food package it made perfect sense.

Interestingly, the linked document shows that Rene was a long way out with his estimate for the required heat transfer if we assume that the astronauts were defined as being 'very active.'

Of course, it is not the only problem with the calculations either. I'm trying to find out how the LCVG worked, but drawing some dead ends with the detail.

[BazBear]

I've known since... I guess around age 11, 12? (1976-77))... that dietary calories were actually kilocalories. I find it hard to believe Rene was ignorant of this, but then again he seemed to be ignorant about a lot of things.

[ka9q]

Some useful round numbers for human metabolism:

Typical resting adult human metabolic power (basal metabolic rate): 100-200 W. 100 W is about 2000 kcal/day.

Even very active people burn most of their energy in their basal metabolism. 1/3 of that is just to drive the Na+/K+ pumps in every cell. Dunno how much is taken as overhead by the mitochondria (symbiotic remains of ancient bacteria, part of every cell, convert glucose to ATP for power.)

Average brain metabolic power: 20-25 W, roughly the same as a typical laptop computer. Yes, that's 25% of total resting metabolic rate. I would have guessed that the heart is the most power-intensive organ in the body, but no, it's the brain. The ancients didn't even know what it was for; they thought it cooled the blood.